Need a ruling

[Spathiphyllum]

OK, so out of respect to forum courtesy, exactly how much deviation from the topic are we allowed in this "Open Discussions" forum? Naturally normal discourse causes things to flow and evolve into uncharted waters not described by the thread's title.

Is it up to the moderator to clip the thread at an arbitrary point just due to deviation from the topic? Is an "Open" discussion really open... or just within reason? What's the point of open discussions if they cannot just flow until something "offensive" demands moderator action?

The forum is an enjoyable diversion from normal coding, but if the deviation is too annoying for the masses, then I guess I'll just offer dry, tempered responses for fear of straying off course.

Mods, what do you say?

[Connie]

Spath. I have a lot of respect for you. but!!

If your referring to my repeated comments about a thread being off subject
fine. I hate clicking on a thread that I have been following to find 3 pages
that have nothing at all to do with the thread.

I realize open discussion is open discussion. I also realize every thread gets
off topic at times. In my opinion every person who has contributed to
the thread should do something to get the thread back on topic, or start a new
thread dealing with the new topic.

I consider it to be very poor manners to keep contributing to a discursion that
has nothing to do with the original thread and I have been guilty of this.

I can remember a time not to long ago that if "Vin" had posted some of the comments
that I read today in one thread "Vin" would have been blasted with a lot of negative
comments.

After reading some post today I am amazed. Matt is even contributing to the bull ****
that has nothing to do with the original thread.

If you or anyone are so discourteous as to take a thread over so be it. I will always complain because I expect to read about what the original subject is about when I check
the updates to a thread.

You and a couple of others who take threads over are in your rights. I am in my rights
to complain when I click to read the last post of a thread I have been following and the post has nothing to do with the original thread.

I don't complain if a few post deviate slightly but then start getting back on track.

I guess slight deviation and back on track is a judgment call for all of us. I'm not
the judge here. I just want you to know I will start making comments about threads
that I am interested in that are continuously off track.

I'm dumb about the Internet. I don't know a lot about forums. What little I know
is that there is etiquette involved. It seems to me that etiquette is not longer a
consideration on this forum.

I can't do anything about that. At one time Matt would have. Jag staff never would
unless the discussion was negative to Jag. Now it seems that anything goes and
the subject listed in a thread is meaningless.

Just the drunken meandering of an old man. On the other hand I think your question
is directly related to my post in another thread.

[Spathiphyllum]

I'm just trying to get a feel for the proper etiquette on the "Open" forum. It's not my intent to hijack a thread or to be discourteous - it's just that some threads meander and I see no reason for them not to continue unless something patently offensive is offered. That's why I'm asking for moderator input for this forum.

The other forums I can understand the desire for a more structured discourse, but this one, in my opinion, should be more free-flowing and boundless.

This topic has come up before, clssam, and I thought it would be appropriate to get a clearer understanding of what is polite and what is not polite... you know, along the lines of manners in the "chivalry" post. I hadn't really thought seriously about getting a policy decision until I ran across your comments in the thread to which you referred. Well, after three posts in a row mentioning how off-topic things had become and what a nuisance it appeared to be, I thought I needed clarification. Maybe others have figured out how to walk the tightrope of appropriate vs inappropriate but I'm not sure I have. After all, I'm a newbie.

[Ron]

I have only complained about people (or more specifically one person) taking a thread off topic in a support forum. I asked for help on a subject, and someone came in and obfuscated the thread immediately, and I never got a technical response that I was looking for.

I don't know what the "Where's everybody from" topic is supposed to be about, other than a list of people's towns, or home towns, or current towns. If someone wanted to put that information out there in the first place, it would probably be in their sig, under their screenname anyway, like mine.

If I walked up to a group of people at a party and asked: "Hey, does anyone know how to get to route 128 from here?" I would hope for an on-topic response, and if someone said, you know, I once had a house on 128 and there was this great restaurant there, ever seen it? The little Red Pub?" I'd be annoyed.

But if I went up to them and asked: "Hey, where's everybody from", I would expect that to be an ice-breaker question that was designed to foster chatter.

Just my opinion.

I don't know if Spath is looking for only moderator input on the issue, but I'd agree with his opening:

What's the point of open discussions if they cannot just flow until something "offensive" demands moderator action?

[Eric]

As you may have noted already, we are not too strict with our forum rules. We just want to make sure everyone is polite and that our basic guidelines are met. As for the "Open Discussions" forum, it's called just that because you may post on almost any topic you like. This doesn't necessarily mean you should go off-topic all the time. That is not the purpose of the forum being named "Open Discussions". Keeping a thread on-topic is preferred. However, as mentioned before, we're not going to ban you for off-topic posts...unless we say otherwise.

[Spathiphyllum]

Gotcha, thanks.

Seatbelt on, both hands on the wheel, looking straight ahead. Occassional veering to avoid potholes, squirrels, and stray dogs.

[mattsiegman]

I'm very used to majorly off-topic threads, as watching where conversations go interests me. Theoretically, I'd split off OT posts, but I don't always do that...

Proper forum etiquette is to stay on topic and start a new topic if you need to, but since this is the open board, i'm a bit lax here

I'll try to be a little better, and I split some of the "where are you from" stuff and the OT parts of this one But I'm not gonna go through and yank everything

Anyhow, I've been very busy lately, so I haven't been doing as much.

During my vacation in July, you're all probably gonna kill eachother with off-topicness

[Spathiphyllum]

Originally posted by mattsiegman
During my vacation in July, you're all probably gonna kill eachother with off-topicness

We're probably not going to wait that long. For example, new word of the day: "off-topicness"... talk amongst yourselves.

Just kidding. Thanks for the prompt reply. I didn't want to create more work for you guys/gals since I enjoy the banter... but for the sake of world peace, I'll temper my banter. Lord knows how but sacrifices must be made, dammit!

[lokki]

I feel like chiming in here...

I help moderate a rather large discussion forum. The areas that are considered free-form are left very much alone except for TOS violations. If we find something useful, we copy it out to a new thread in the appropriate area.

Our forum relies heavily on search capabilities to help answer questions. So, if a help thread starts to wander, we step in and split it out. This keeps search information easily available.

As some have alluded, an open area is a metaphorical water cooler - anything goes. If you were standing around participating, then left to the bathroom, would you expect those also involved to either stay doggedly on topic (during their own time, presumably), or perhaps move to another water cooler when the subject changed? You'd be lucky if they fille you in on the discussion you missed.

I'm not trying to start anything with you, Connie. I just have a very different point of view. 'My' forum has more than 75,000 posts, with roughly 150 new posts each day. We get on average 100 new users every week. The open areas are where people learn about eachother without worrying where the topic goes. There is no obligation to read each and every post, nor is there an obligation to remain on topic in the open areas. It's these undefined regions that really define our community, if you'll pardon the lexical excursion.

The point is, the support areas are meant to help people, so organization and specificity is key. The other areas should be left to the particular meanderings of those mulling about, without restriction.

Now, after all of that, can I hand you a beer? I've got this bottle of Chimay Blue that's been calling my name...

[orbic1]

My 2 cents that I wish to re-iterate from the previous posts here:

"Open Discussions" would be nice to stay on topic, but not essential. ANY Support / Sales request should be kept strictly on topic. I'm just as guilty as anyone else, but if we were to adopt this simple and effective method then all should be well.

"Hijacking" threads can be frustrating (esp in support threads), but if you are to post in "Open", you know that it is open for anyone to contribute.

I don't want anyone to assume that I don't enjoy the fantastic progression of conversation displayed on this forum, but perhaps some discretion where people actually want help?

Just my opinions.

[Galen]

The same thing lokki said applies to small forums as well, apparently. I've come to believe that my users all suffer from ADD There's one thread that comes to mind...it's 11 pages long now and has covered about 15 to 20 different topics. The original topic didn't even last the first page, iirc. I'd split it, but I wouldn't know where to begin.

That's fun though.

[Connie]

Originally posted by lokki
I help moderate a rather large discussion forum. The areas that are considered free-form are left very much alone except for TOS violations. If we find something useful, we copy it out to a new thread in the appropriate area.
.

I think that is my point. A new thread should be started when a thread starts to go off track. Every thread gets off track. Depending on the topic most come back on track. When several post later a new thread has actually started then the thread should be moved. It benefits everyone.

This discussion began over the thread where are you from?. It has been side tracked several times. I didn't read all of the last side tracks but it seems to me they involved "Womens Lib".

It would serve every one if a new thread was started about "Womens Lib".

That topic deserves its own thread.

That way people who want to respond to where you are from are not shocked when they run into a discussion about "Womens Lib".

On the other hand there might be a lot more people get involved in the discussion if the thread was about "Womens Lib" rather than where are you from.

I have made several references to "Vin". He has side tracked a lot of threads, and there have been a lot of complaints due to his method and the fact the thread got off track.

All I'm saying is when a thread starts to get off track "start a new thread about the new topic".

[lokki]

fair enough.

agree to disagree?