Fahrenheit 9/11 - seen it?

[clio]

What'd you guys think?

Even though I'm a liberal from the Northeast, I was kind of ambivalent about it.

I like the facts that he exposed in terms of the links between Bush & Cheney and oil and Saudi money. But Michael Moore's style, the over-the-top-bang-it-into-people's-head ruined parts of it for me.

It's totally propagdanda so I hope nobody just eats it up and takes his word for it.

That's how I perceive it anyway.

[Spathiphyllum]

Nah, not parting with good money for products made by people of his ilk. It seems unseemly to reward "propaganda" even if he raises a point or two. His manipulations and selective ommission call in to question everything he touches. However, I do tend to like the style of both subtle jabs and "over-the-top-bang-it-into-people's-head" whacks, just not from him.

Being a self-described liberal, at least you're intellectually honest and don't take everything Moore claims at face value.

[Ron]

Speaking of propaganda and movies, anybody see the latest photo ops of our Vietnam River Boat Captain Kerry kite boarding?

Anybody that saw that also see "Apocalypse Now"?

Just curious.

[Spathiphyllum]

You mean Kerry was in Vietnam?

Haven't seen the surfin' Senator but saw Apocalypse Now. Great movie and very telling as hindsight to Sheen's current rantings of war. I think that must be when his delusions began.

[Ron]

I have been searching for video for quite a while-- no luck. I did manage to find a still of him kite boarding, bottom right.

Can you hear "Charlie don't surf and he's gonna paa-aa=aay"

http://www.drudgereport.com/kerryv.htm


http://www.surfnewquay.co.uk/


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...agh10407202150

[Ron]

Ok, this is huge...

Not John John Kerry, but a .mov of Nantucket Kiteboarders, from:

http://www.nantucketkiteboarding.com/video.html

45 megabytes... right-click and save it to your own machine!
http://www.HappieCamper.com/jag/2002to2003.mov

[Vin DSL]

Originally posted by clio
...Michael Moore's style, the over-the-top-bang-it-into-people's-head ruined parts of it for me...

Yeah, I've noticed lib chicks like subtle liars the best. 'Bubba' Clinton comes to mind...

[clio]

Originally posted by Vin DSL
Yeah, I've noticed lib chicks like subtle liars the best. 'Bubba' Clinton comes to mind...

whatever. Clinton was my president, not my husband. I don't care who he sleeps with so much as what he's done for the country - all of which Bush undid.

As for my comment about banging it into our heads, Moore had two agendas for the film: 1) attack Bush, 2) get a wider audience. It's the latter that requires the style he chose, which is why it annoys me.

[Vin DSL]

Originally posted by clio
As for my comment about banging it into our heads...

A lot of guys don't consider that sex, including 'your president'. Does THAT bother you?

Basically, 'they' are using 'your' mouths for urinals...

[Vin DSL]

Remember the flap over this:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1070032.htm

Personally, I could care less about Moore and his movies. I'm 'moore' interested in how lib chicks feel about being exploited as sex objects.

[Spathiphyllum]

Originally posted by clio - quotes in bold

...I don't care who he sleeps with so much as what he's done for the country - all of which Bush undid.

For almost everybody I would agree with the first part of that statement. But for the President of the United States, I expect a heck of a lot more. I always hope that the vetting of potential Presidential candidates will produce a field of exceptional options (not naive, just hopeful)... the subtext is that I want someone better than me leading the country. A daliance or two (or in the case of Clinton, who knows how many) might be overlooked if, during the political process, the voters are aware of the behavior and elect him/her anyway. Unfortunate that the public wouldn't recognize numerous infidelities as a character flaw for someone that would be President, but you can't fault the electee for that.

Nevertheless - and I'm finally getting to the major point - Clinton's behavior resulted in a Commander in Chief that was preoccupied with behavior that did not serve the best interests of the country. In that compromised condition, he was ripe for extortion by those that would exploit knowing about his shenanigans. Imagine if someone other than the supposed VRWC (vast right wing conspiracists) knew about his behavior and, rather than outing him, demanded that political favors be granted or policy decisions me changed? How much and to what extent could a man with such a skeleton in the closet bend to the whims of others to protect his own hide? It's pretty apparent that Mr. Clinton had a wasted second term because he was so preoccupied with defending the "I did not... have... sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky" lie. You think his judgement wasn't clouded, assuming you thought his judgement was clear in the first place? Wait a minute... maybe the second term wasn't so bad after all. He was too preoccupied to do anything worse.

As for Bush's undoing things for the country, I guess I'd like a for instance or two before making a rash reponse.

As for my comment about banging it into our heads, Moore had two agendas for the film: 1) attack Bush, 2) get a wider audience. It's the latter that requires the style he chose, which is why it annoys me.

Since I'm not going to see the film, can you elaborate on the technique Moore used to get a wider audience? Are you saying vitriolic exaggeration and manipulation sells? You'll have to elaborate more since that is the interpretation that I make.

[Spathiphyllum]

Originally posted by Vin DSL - quotes in bold

Remember the flap over this:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1070032.htm

Yep, Mapplethorpe's significant other would have been proud.

I'm 'moore' interested in how lib chicks feel about being exploited as sex objects.

Good point. A bit of a, um, broad generalization but interesting nonetheless. Any ladies out there want to tackle this one... get the ball rolling, as it were?

[Vin DSL]

Originally posted by Spathiphyllum
Yep, Mapplethorpe's significant other would have been proud... A bit of a, um, broad generalization but interesting nonetheless. Any ladies out there want to tackle this one... get the ball rolling, as it were?

How about some visuals?

• http://www.ananova.com/images/web/88266.jpg

[Spathiphyllum]

Originally posted by Vin DSL
How about some visuals?

Actually, some thing are better left unsaid unseen. Simply amazing to me that the managers didn't see this as a bad idea from the get go. I guess I'm a prude. I should get 30 lashes... Oops! Some people might not consider that punishment.

[Connie]

Really curious. Clio asked for an opinion but did not provide any kind of link.

There have been a lot of opinions and links. Do any of these actually deal with Clio's original post? I don't know. Just curious abut the original posters intent and the replys.