On Debating...

[Vin DSL]

I'm in a rather melancholy mood today. Summer doldrums, I guess. I'm actually listening to ambient music in the middle of the day - radioioAmbient...

Anyway, I ran across this post on another website. I thought you might find it interesting, especially since it appears to be a slow 'newsday' on JagPC.

It's one of those 'things' I think about, but have never bothered to commit to words. Maybe I have a twin...

Here are some things I have found most useful when debating online:

First and foremost, have something to say. (This would seem fairly obvious, but in fact it is violated thousands of times every day by various users who get a thrill simply from seeing their stream-of-consciousness ramblings made public. I'm on many social forums other then this one and see many "Me too" posts)

Know your facts. If you say something, be able to back it up when challenged, preferably with sound source material. Naturally, one can't know everything, but a line from Beaumarchais' Marriage of Figaro is apropos: "I don't dispute what I know nothing about." If you don't know a subject, either stay away from it or do all you can to learn about it and make yourself equal to those you wish to challenge.

Watch spelling. All of us will make lapses on occasion, but those who habitually write posts marred with errors in spelling are like those who show up at a town meeting in shabby, tattered clothing. Since people have nothing by which to judge you except words on a screen, shouldn't those words be as tidy as possible? I've been in debates and put in wrong words that made what I was trying to point out a totally different meaning.

When you make a mistake, admit it. In fact, be the first to do so. Many times, when I have realized too late that I have made a mistake in a posting, I have posted an immediate correction. Once on a religion forum, I misspelled an adversary's name (a difficult one) several times in one of my posts. When I realized this, I immediately apologized via a follow-up post. No one else ever mentioned it after that. If you admit your own mistakes first, this will take the wind out of the sails of anyone who wants to ridicule you for erring. Conversely, if you stonewall and refuse to admit error, you will almost certainly be humiliated before scores of users in the forum.

Avoid personal attacks. Going ad hominem is a sure sign of a lack of substantial argument, and will denote you as a first-class nincompoop to any intelligent readers of what goes on the forum. It's valid to say that someone obviously misunderstands an issue, but not to say that he or she must be stupid not to understand it. (There's a difference and I've found myself doing this a couple times. It difficult not to do it.) If you stick to the high road while your adversary throws mud at you, smart people (the ones you want to impress) will take note. They will take your arguments seriously and disregard the rantings of your opponent. In tandem with this:

Be tenacious. Don't let your foe change the subject to your personality or the personalities of those you support. Kindly but firmly insist on the original issues. If you ask a question and it doesn't get answered, point that out and ask it again. This is a far more powerful weapon than the personal attack mode that ignorant people use. You can become a real thorn in someone's side by insisting that an issue he is trying to obscure be addressed rather than shrugged off.

Employ wit. This will show others that you are taking what your opponent says lightly, without getting bent out of shape. Also, it will be more entertaining to read, and more frustrating to your foe when he realizes he cannot fluster you. Lightness of touch is sadly lacking in many of the rudimentary statements made online, so using wit will set you apart from the unimaginative crowd and make your pronouncements stand out.

Retain a sense of perspective. It's not the end of the world if you don't swat every online fly who dares to challenge your statements. Some foes are not worth your while, and you should say so outright and not let yourself be goaded into an argument that you feel wastes your time.

Also, don't get caught up in responding to everything immediately; this makes you look like you have nothing better to do. Even if you don't have a life outside the computer, make it look as if you do. Space out your replies, and use the extra time to make them especially potent. It's not likely that anyone else in the forum knows what you're doing while you're not replying--and anyone who objects to your slowness of response leaves himself open to the charge of not having a life! ("Gee, CyberKnucklehead265, sorry that visiting my sick mother in the hospital kept me from replying to your post right away. Guess I need to get my priorities in order! ")

You have to have fun and not take anything personal. No one agrees in debates or else it wouldn't be a debate. If an issue is hitting to close to home maybe that thread should be ignored so feeling are not hurt. This could be a war zone or it can be fun ... I hope it's fun and enlightens those who read the threads!!!

[Ron]

http://members.aol.com/basfawlty/tips.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3aef460f4288.htm

[Vin DSL]

Heh! Timeless words of wisdom, no?

[lokki]

to that list I would add this, which is perhaps the most difficult thing of all...

Be open to changing your mind.

This, above all else, is why we debate in the first place. Too many people think the whole point is to prove they're right and the other person is a bafoon. This is then called a discussion. I haven't seen one of those in a very long time online.

This doesn't mean you should go into every encounter looking to change, but you should be open to the possibility, and hopefully you'll at least learn something. The best you can hope for is to consider something new.

Beyond that, maybe you will re-evaluate your thoughts and position with the result of either reinforcing yourself, or becoming enlightened.

I would certainly like to follow my own advice, and fortunately I do from time to time. It can be embarrassing, but it works out well

[Spathiphyllum]

Originally posted by lokki
...I haven't seen one of those in a very long time online.

A discussion or a buffoon?

[Connie]

Originally posted by Vin DSL
I'm in a rather melancholy mood today. Summer doldrums, I guess. I'm actually listening to ambient music in the middle of the day - radioioAmbient...

Anyway, I ran across this post on another website. I thought you might find it interesting, especially since it appears to be a slow 'newsday' on JagPC.

It's one of those 'things' I think about, but have never bothered to commit to words. Maybe I have a twin...

Maybe the summer doldrums are good for you. I don't try to listen to music on the net. It is broken. You hear a few notes or words or bars of music. Then there is a break. When the connection picks back up it has skiped a lot.

I know the problem is probably related to my ISP, but!!!

I probably missed the point of your post.

[Vin DSL]

Originally posted by clssam
I don't try to listen to music on the net. It is broken. You hear a few notes or words or bars of music. Then there is a break. When the connection picks back up it has skiped a lot...

It's probably a bandwidth issue for you, Connie. The streaming MP3 links I have require 160k of bandwidth. If I remember correctly, you're on 56k dialup, so you're gonna get a LOT of clipping!