High Performance Toilets - Which One?

[Vin DSL]

Heh! The title description says, 'Anything goes'...

One small drop for water conservation - one giant clog for mankind!

I figure it's a toss-up between the Kohler Cimarron and the American Standard Champion.

Um... anyone have experience with either one of these?

Please don't tell me you don't have problems with clogged toilets. 'They' say one in three households has to flush their toilets twice to get them rid of 'waste.' One in eight have problems with clogging. Almost everyone has to have a plunger close at hand these days. Some ppl even have to run their washing machines after taking a dump, to clear the sewer line. All of this is because of mandated 1.6 gallon per flush crappers!

Personally, I'm sick of it! I can't even invite Uncle Charlie over for dinner, for fear he'll use the toilet afterwards and flood my house.

I'm planning on spending 500 bones on two 'performance' tiolets. If that doesn't do it, I'm gonna drive four hours to Mexico and buy a 'real' toilet, with a 5-gallon flush.

[Vin DSL]

Oh, yeah, don't miss this...

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/p...lush/spot.html

[mattsiegman]

Heh, We have real toilets here in Kansas

[Vin DSL]

If you'll pardon the pun, the toilets here stink!

I have a quarter-million dollar home, with $1000 beds, a $2000 refrigerator, a $3000 TV, and $50 toilets!

What's wrong with this picture?

[lokki]

I have a quarter-million dollar home, with $1000 beds, a $2000 refrigerator, a $3000 TV, and $50 toilets!

What's wrong with this picture?

Just off-hand I'd say the Fridge is over-priced.



I was in a hotel in Cleveland, I think... the toilets seemed to have a 'pressure assist' of some sort. All I can say is if you happened to be sitting on one when you flushed it, you wouldn't need to eat fiber for a week.



We have Kohlers that perform beautifully. Apparently the previous owners had the same view as you, Vin. These things are fast; not sure how they do it, really.

My last house had something I can only describe as a 'WhisperFlush 2000'. It literally was no louder than pouring water down a drain, and even that was muted if the lid was down. It, too, was a Kohler, and had plenty of 'oomph'.

Perhaps 'oomph' was not a good choice of words...

[Vin DSL]

Another bad pun, but I think I'm inclined to go with the Kohler Cimarron...

I've read that the 'flush tower' in the American Standard Champion makes a loud 'thunk' when it seals - loud enough to wake up the whole household in the night.

Besides that, the Kolher is $50 cheaper (each), although I really don't care about the cost. I spent $8000+ on flooring, 6 months ago, and I really don't want it to get soaked in you-know-what!

I also read that the Kohler Cimarron is commercial quality, i.e. the same toilet used in commercial applications, minus the wall mount.

All the plumbling sites (yes, they have toilet forums, believe it ot not) talk up the Toto toilets (made in Japan). However, I cannot find them locally. If I could, I would probably (ahem) go that direction...

[mattsiegman]

you have too much money vin, feel free to send me some for tuition

(I don't know much about toilets, as long as they flush and it all goes down the drain, i'm happy)

[wgiese]

Without a doubt - Toto rules.

I've had three of them - two in the current house, one in the last. They're one of the first things I add when moving in. They have a gazillion models, but the low end Ultimate and Ultramax are good models. Seats are included, unlike most others, and the ass-to-plastic design gets rave reviews, particularly in the elongated bowls...

They are the largest toilet manufacturer in the world, even though they are relatively new to the US. Aside from the best 1.6 flush you'll find, they have the cool "easy down" seats - just give them a push, and they let themselves down without a bang. They've also got the most simple and fool-proof valve mechanism you'll find. Good riddance to that antiquated float and chain...

They also make some very nice optional seats - heated, built-in washers, etc. A little too fancy and expensive for my tastes, not to mention you usually have to retrofit your bath to get an outlet behind the john...

You won't usually find them at the big home improvement stores - usually, you have to go to a bath and plumbing supply store. If you want to buy online, Homeclick sells them at a reasonable price.

One might say, this is an area where I feel I know my sh!t...

[Vin DSL]

(I don't know much about toilets, as long as they flush and it all goes down the drain, i'm happy)

LoL! That's my whole point!

[Vin DSL]

Without a doubt - Toto rules.

You won't usually find them at the big home improvement stores - usually, you have to go to a bath and plumbing supply store...

I finally hit the right combination on Google and found a Toto dealer in Phoenix (and only one).

I'll definitely check them out! Woo hoo - matching Totos!

You know, the funny thing is, real Japanese ppl crap in a hole in the floor. It amazes me that they make the best toilets.




I've checked Toto out on the web before, and I know Totos toilets are computer designed, and all that, but I suppose the others are too. Maybe they're just better with porcelain...

[lokki]

I was going to point that out, Vin, but didn't know if many would get the reference to 'kneeling before your porcelain throne'.



For the life of me, I can't understand why that might be a preferable way 'to go'. I'd be worried about falling over, or *in*. Worse, leaving a trail down the backside of your knickers...

[Vin DSL]

I was going to point that out, Vin, but didn't know if many would get the reference to 'kneeling before your porcelain throne'.



For the life of me, I can't understand why that might be a preferable way 'to go'. I'd be worried about falling over, or *in*. Worse, leaving a trail down the backside of your knickers...

Japan is a very old country, and you have to remember they are only about 100 years beyond Feudalism, when they were ruled by warrior aristocrats.

To this day, many homes simply have a hole in the floor to crap through. So, the picture above represents an improvement, of sorts, because it's hooked to a sewage system.

Once again, this is what real Japanese use, the ones that wear robes and so forth. Obviously, this style of commode doesn't fair well with ppl wearing trousers...

[Connie]

Vin are you on a sewer system or a septic tank? You finally hit on a topic that I know a little bit about. There are so many variables that I'm not even going to suggest anything until I know the answer to #1. I can tell you that a $50.00 tolit will preform as well as a $2000.00 tolit. Neither one will work well if the drainage system is wrong. That could involve basic pulmbing in your house. That could involve your septic system if your on a septic tank.

[Ron]

VinI'm not even going to suggest anything until I know the answer to #1.

I don't think his problem relates to #1.

[Vin DSL]

Vin...are you on a sewer system or a septic tank?

I'm connected to a sewer system - one of the best in the world, by some accounts. It seems that they have a SOTA sewage treatment plant - 1 of only 10 like it in the world. Whatever... The point is, there is nothing wrong with that part of the equation, except there isn't enough water pushing it that way, with 1.6 gallon flushes...

When I had my floors redone, a few months ago, I noticed that the outlets on the bottom of the toilets were very small. While I didn't measure the diameter of the pipes in the floor, or the toilets, I would guess that the sewer pipe was at least 4 inches wide, but the toilet outlets were only around 1.5 inches. I thought this rather odd at the time, but I haven't seen that many toilets upside-down, removed from their moorings - maybe 5 during my lifetime. But, in the ones I have seen, I don't ever remember seeing outlets that small. Maybe I just never noticed it before.

Anyway, with all these problems, I started thinking, someone has to make a toilet with a larger outlet. Then I talked myself out of it, thinking, "Bah! That's stupid!" Well, sure enough! Through the magic of the Internet, I discovered that every toilet manufacturer makes a 'performance' toilet with a larger outlet, bigger 'flapper' valve, et cetera.

The increased size of these items seems to make a decided difference in performance between a $50 toilet and a $500 one. I would guess that this is done on purpose, strictly as a marketing ploy. While I'm not a plumbing expert, I cannot see any good reason to make the channels and outlets in one toilet smaller than another.

Thank God they didn't play this game with the drainage pipe system in my house - like 2 inch sewer pipes in $200k houses and 4 inch sewer pipes in $400k houses...