Rather Biased...

[Vin DSL]

Proverb...

Never murder a man that's committing suicide...

Rather Interview with Bill O'Reilly...

O'REILLY: ...I want to ask you flat out. Do you think President Clinton's an honest man?

RATHER: Yes, I think he's an honest man.

O'REILLY: Do you really?

RATHER: I think -- I do. I think he's an honest man.

O'REILLY: Even when he lied to Jim Lehrer's face about the (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

RATHER: Listen, who among us have not lied about something?

O'REILLY: Well, I didn't lie to anybody's face on national television. I don't think you have. Have you?

RATHER: I don't think I ever have. I hope I never have. But look, it's one thing...

O'REILLY: How can you say he's an honest guy, then?

RATHER: Well, because I think he is. I think at core, he's an honest person. I know that you have a different view. I know that you consider it sort of astonishing anybody would say so. But I think you can be an honest person and lie about any number of things.

O'REILLY: Really?

RATHER: Yes, I do

Rather Interview with Imus...

RATHER: Look, he (Clinton) lied. He lied but he shouldn't have lied. He lied and tried to cover it up. My point to Bill (O'Reilly), and I have no apology for it, it's the rare person - Bill may be that person - but it's the rare person who can say, you know, 'Never in my life have I ever told a lie. Particularly, I've never told a lie when, you know, my whole career might rest on it.

Now, there are plenty of people who have argued with it, but I think the fact that someone has told a lie, even a big lie or maybe several big lies over a lifetime, does not mean that they're an inherently dishonest person. But, you know, this may mark me as one of those people - I believe in redemption and that Bill Clinton - is he an honest person? I think he is an honest person. Did he lie? Yes, he lied, and on those occasions he was dishonest."

[Spathiphyllum]

The twisted logic of rationalization... quite sad but instructive.

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[Vin DSL]

Oops!

[Connie]

I think there is a difference between being honest and never telling a lie. I also think there is a difference between being honest all the time and honest most of the time.

Rather or O'Reilly did not go into these distinctions. I know black is black and white is white. I think most people based on my experience think in terms of gray. I'm not a liar. I do tell white lies when it benefits me.

I am honest, but I cheat a little on my income taxes hope I don't get caught.

Is Clinton a Liar? Is Clinton dishonest? Basically I don't think so. Has he told lies? Has he been less than honest in some business transactions. Yes.

Am I a Clinton supporter? Definately not. I would not vote for him to be a dog catcher.

I just think there needs to be some clearification about this report. For any one who only thinks in black and white I have some other questions for you.

[Spathiphyllum]

clssam, are you looking to get audited? Does anyone have a grudge against you where you might get turned in? Do you want to bring the "wrath" of the IRS even if you are joking? I'd edit my post... but that's just me.

[Connie]

clssam, are you looking to get audited? Does anyone have a grudge against you where you might get turned in? Do you want to bring the "wrath" of the IRS even if you are joking? I'd edit my post... but that's just me.

Spath no I'm not looking to get audited. I don't know of anyone who has a grudge against me. Please tell my what you saw in my post that caused this response. Especially in regard to bringing the wrath of the IRS down on me.

I thought this thread was about being honest and being a liar. I used the IRS as an example that I don't think any citizen could pass.

Let me give you an entirly differnt example. My late wife hated liars. However, that was based on her definiton of a liar.

If she caught me in a white lie I was a liar. If I caught her in a white lie it was not a lie and I was acussing her of being a liar which of course she wast in her mind. Guess who lost the argrument.

All I am saying is that "truth and honesty" is in the eye of the beholder.

Is Clinton a liar? Is Cliton honest? I think so. I would not vote for him. I lived in Arkanasa many years ago.

On the other hand what anyone says about who is a liar or dishonest is based on their own background. How they interept the terms is up to the indivdual.

By the way. Do you work for the IRS? Thats the only reason I can think of for some of your comments.

[Spathiphyllum]

Spath...Please tell my what you saw in my post that caused this response. Especially in regard to bringing the wrath of the IRS down on me.

By the way. Do you work for the IRS? Thats the only reason I can think of for some of your comments.

My comment was not in response to an interpretation or misinterpretation of what you said about honesty and a President. No, my, um, advice was in regard to "...but I cheat a little on my income taxes hope I don't get caught" where you've just let the world in an a dirty little secret. It's probably not wise to disclose this even in jest. No sense looking for headaches when life has enough of them already.

And no, I have no association with the IRS other than as a contributor.

Just an FYI - anyone can turn anyone else in for IRS violations. You need not be an employee to do so although those IRS auditors probably have easier access to the right paperwork.

[Spathiphyllum]

Just an FYI - anyone can turn anyone else in for IRS violations. You need not be an employee to do so although those IRS auditors probably have easier access to the right paperwork.

Gee, how timely...

High-end tax fraud is targeted (9:21 PM CDT on Sunday, September 19, 2004)

[lokki]

Spath,

Can you post a summary of the article? I would rather not register at yet another site

[Spathiphyllum]

lokki, I know what you mean about all that registration stuff. I think this is probably the only one I have registered for news.

Anyway, all credit goes to the Dallas Morning News.

High-end tax fraud is targeted
09:21 PM CDT on Sunday, September 19, 2004
By PAMELA YIP / The Dallas Morning News

If you have knowledge of high-end income tax fraud, Congress is trying to make it worth your while to come forward and spill the beans.

Sen. Charles Grassley, R- Iowa, chairman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee, has proposed legislation that would create a whistle-blower office at the Internal Revenue Service that would handle reports of tax fraud by wealthy taxpayers and corporations.

"This is a provision that is meant to make sure that honest taxpayers are rewarded, because they're not rewarded when dishonest taxpayers don't pay the money that they owe," Mr. Grassley said.

"Increasingly, those who don't pay are financial giants – big corporations and wealthy individuals – that have the wherewithal to construct elaborate schemes to evade payment. They stay many steps ahead of the IRS."

Uncollected tax is estimated at more than $310 billion, and growing, he said...

[snipped content]

Program in place

The IRS already has an informant program, which rewards informants as much as 15 percent of the recovered money, up to $2 million.

But critics said the program isn't working because the government is so tight when it comes to passing out the money.

"They are so parsimonious," said Bill Roberts, a Dallas tax lawyer. "There are situations where it might be worthwhile, but as a general rule, most tax practitioners just don't think it's worthwhile pursuing and don't advise their clients to pursue it."

IRS officials declined to comment on Mr. Grassley's proposal, saying the agency doesn't comment on pending legislation.

Supporters of Mr. Grassley's provision said it would give those with expert knowledge of tax schemes more incentive to step forward...

[lokki]

Sounds an awful lot like a greed-based front porch to 1984.

[Spathiphyllum]

Isn't every attempt to acquire new information these days somewhat Orwellian? It's practically the default position for everything in this new age.

Nevertheless, government already has established protocols to process tax abuses and this is but another incentive-laden ruling in wait to expedite the process. But I've got a better idea... how about the government reduce spending by a billion or two or thousand so that those evil corporations will be less inclined to cheat. Oh yeah, I forget... ALL corporations are evil and must be stopped. /sarcasm

[lokki]

There seems to be a pretty good push to turn people in for a reward. This is rule by greed, and ultimately leads to subjugation if left unchecked. How? Simply by the fact that some people will start relying on things like this for extra income or implied favors (not everyone, but a good number, I'd guess). These people would have shown the ability to be manipulated quite easily by the promise of reward, and would do it easier and easier each time.

You should be able to see where I'm going with this...

So, when the gov't wants something controlled, it quickly passes a law, lets the 'bounty hunters' know what to look out for, and sets them loose. You wouldn't know who is deciding between a new lamborghini or a yacht, and doesn't value your friendship quite so much as the lump of work-free cash. Or power.

Sound familiar? It should. This was a favourite of many kings, feudal lords, and even 'modern' rulers like Hitler and Stalin, not to mention McCarthy. Ouch.

I'd rather see people incentivized by doing the right thing. However, even my wife thinks I'm an idiot about this... For her, doing the right thing means keeping your head down and only acting if you get something out of it. Well, I get the satisfaction that in the end I have to answer to myself. If I don't follow my own rules, what's the point of having them?

[Spathiphyllum]

All good points, lokki. But I know my friends love me.

And your ethics are admirable. I'm of the same ilk. We are doomed to live honestly, with integrity, and in poverty.

[Vin DSL]