Parents refuse to take daughter to doctor, choose to pray instead

[Pawel Kowalski]

and the 11 year old girl died as a result:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...Bq.jIRrQus0NUE

Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor

An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness

Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.

Since Vin seems to have a monopoly here with political threads I figured I would join in.

I personally think these parents should be locked up for neglect that lead to death. I can not understand why police didn't do anything when they were informed on multiple occasions that this was happening. Opinions?

[Frank Broughton]

Opinion: stay out of my family! There is a higher authority than government

[Ron]

Sure, as soon as a child can make her own informed decision about her own health.

Until then she has a right to be treated, and the government has a responsibility to protect her from harm. Our constitution doesn't grant rights only to citizens older than 18.

[Pawel Kowalski]

Opinion: stay out of my family! There is a higher authority than government

So why are you against a woman that says stay out of my body? What gives you a right to kill your born child in the name of God while you look down on a woman aborting a fetus? Sounds extremely hypocritical to me, but what the hell do I know.

[thecoalman]

Agree, with Ron. There's a line between practicing your religion and criminality. Cross it and you should be held criminally responsible. If this was simply two parents that didn't provide medical treatment out of shear stupidity or neglect they would be charged.

It's no different than if they starved the child to death... which FYI actually happened in my neck of the woods a few years back. Similar case, instead of buying food they tithed all their money for the church, kid died of heart attack or something along those lines brought on by malnutrition. Think he was something like 13-14 years old and 60 lbs.

[mattsiegman]

There is a difference between beliefs and action (or lack thereof). People who do not have the ability to care for themselves must be protected by somebody. When parents are too stupid to realize that they need to take their kid to a doctor, it's a sad thing, because they are the natural protectors of their children.

People don't realize that God works in many ways, and taking your kid to the doctor may very well be what you are supposed to do. It reminds me of a joke I've heard a few times:

A farmer is in his home during a flood. The river is overflowing, with water surrounding the farmer's home up to his front porch. As he is standing there, a boat comes up, The man in the boat says "Jump in, I'll take you to safety."

The farmer crosses his arms and says stubbornly, "Nope, I put my trust in God."

The boat goes away. The water rises to the second floor. Another boat comes up, the man says to the farmer who is now in the second story window, "Jump in, I'll save you."

The farmer again says, "Nope, I put my trust in God."

The boat goes away. Now the water is up to the roof. As The farmer stands on the roof, a helicopter comes over, and drops a ladder. The pilot yells down to the farmer "I'll save you, climb the ladder."

The farmer says "Nope, I put my trust in God."

The helicopter goes away. The water comtinues to rise and sweeps the farmer off the roof. He drowns.

The farmer goes to heaven. God sees him and says "What are you doing here?"

The farmer says "I put my trust in you and you let me down."

God says, "What do you mean, let you down? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!!!"

[Ron]

Sometimes you have to know when help is being sent, other times you have to do for yourself before prayer can help.

Ten times every day for ten years Sam prays to win the lottery.
On the tenth anniversary of starting to pray, he hears a voice.
"Sam"
"What's that?"
"Sam"
"Who is there?"
"Sam!"
"God is that you?"
"Sam, every day, ten times per day you have been praying to win the lottery"
"Yes Lord"
"Sam, for Pete's sake, buy a ticket!"

[Frank Broughton]

So why are you against a woman that says stay out of my body? What gives you a right to kill your born child in the name of God while you look down on a woman aborting a fetus? Sounds extremely hypocritical to me, but what the hell do I know.

You are right. I was being what you called me "slaps self in face." I do not know what you know. How could I know what you know, if you do not know what you know. You know?

Matt hit it - God is all for using doctors - just do not ignore God in the equation. The family made a grave error, sadly.

[JPC-Greg]

Negligence, but was it the parents or god ? dun, dun, dun ... stay tuned next week for .... ceo..... beaten down for forum comments

[the_ancient]

This is a very very slippery slope here.....

everyone here seems to be suggesting is that the doctors wishes should supersede the parents.

Should the parents be charged every time they go against some doctors recommended treatment?

//I have zero faith in the medical system.... Doctors are just legal drug dealers

[Frank Broughton]

Negligence, but was it the parents or god ? dun, dun, dun ... stay tuned next week for .... ceo..... beaten down for forum comments

Beat you down for comments - never. No matter who is to blame, it is sad for sure. My opinion - it was not God - [duck & run comment as I leave the room] - in no mood for another religious, political 57 page discussion - one BTW Ron and Matt never did answer my last requests and dialog. :-evil grin.

This is a very very slippery slope here.....

everyone here seems to be suggesting is that the doctors wishes should supersede the parents.

Should the parents be charged every time they go against some doctors recommended treatment?

//I have zero faith in the medical system.... Doctors are just legal drug dealers

Are they really saying that or are they saying the parents did not get any doctor involved? I have a good friend that is a doctor, indeed medicine is always his first course of action. I hate that! They "practice" medicine. Much of the time just like a vehicle mechanic. Try this, if this happens then we try this.

[Ron]

A 70 cent fingerstick followed by $70 of insulin a month would have saved her life.

[the_ancient]

Beat you down for comments - never. No matter who is to blame, it is sad for sure. My opinion - it was not God - [duck & run comment as I leave the room] - in no mood for another religious, political 57 page discussion - one BTW Ron and Matt never did answer my last requests and dialog. :-evil grin.



Are they really saying that or are they saying the parents did not get any doctor involved? I have a good friend that is a doctor, indeed medicine is always his first course of action. I hate that! They "practice" medicine. Much of the time just like a vehicle mechanic. Try this, if this happens then we try this.

So it is your position that people with children MUST use a doctor...

I know most people will not agree with me, but just because it say "md" after a persons name does not make them all knowing. Doctors screw up all of the time, more than most people want to admit...

It is tragic that this child died, but this is not an excuse to give the government more power, and more control of our lives.....

Further even if the child was taken to the "doctor" are you 100% sure she would have lived????

[the_ancient]

A 70 cent fingerstick followed by $70 of insulin a month would have saved her life.

maybe, maybe not.......

My whole family is diabetic, Insulin is not the cure all, some people reject it...

But hey any excuse to turn over more control to the feds right....


Go Obama!!!!

[Frank Broughton]

A 70 cent fingerstick followed by $70 of insulin a month would have saved her life.

In that case, are the parents criminals? hmmm... perhaps. If they knew what you just posted then yes for sure they are criminals. The government then has cause for action against them.