Split Thread: politics, gibberish, offtopic

[Ron]

I think that only gets you to betwen .78125% and 2.34375% depending on the location in your pedigree and the strength of your peyote.

[Vin DSL]

Oh, okay...

n/m

Carry on!

[the_ancient]

I'm 1/64 Kickapoo (Ohio - still a few around) 1/128 Godfrey (Indiana - extinct)!

Does that count?

I am 1/32 Cherokee

[Vin DSL]

I am 1/32 Cherokee

It gets me when I see stuff like this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...203014_pf.html

B.O. is 1/2 white, but I guess that's not enough...

Other than your nasty disposition and alcohol abuse... would anybody be able to tell you're an Injun?

[the_ancient]

It gets me when I see stuff like this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...203014_pf.html

B.O. is 1/2 white, but I guess that's not enough...

Other than your nasty disposition and alcohol abuse... would anybody be able to tell you're an Injun?

We are going to get way off topic, but Obama Problem is not that he is Black, it is that he is Karl Marx..

We dont need more Socialism, That is What we will get, but we do not need it, Obama is a hardcore socialist that will destory this country.

ofcourse the other 2 are only slighty less so....

McCain proved that with the recently releases "energy plan" that will bankrupt everyone..

$4 gas will be all but a memory,,, once these 3 get done with us you will be wising for $10 a gallon....

But hey its all "evil big oils" fault right

[Gwaihir]

We pay $10 per gallon and we still have a functional economy..

[the_ancient]

We pay $10 per gallon and we still have a functional economy..

HUH???

[jason]

A lot of European countries have much higher gas prices than we do. At the same time, though, their entire countries are often smaller than the size of our of our states, and from what I've heard commutes tend to be shorter and mass transit tends to be much better than it is in most US cities.

I would love it if we had better mass transit systems over here--if they actually worked, I'd use them. There is a bus stop at the end of my street, a short walk from my house. I live about 13 miles from work, it takes about 20 minutes to drive there. That means that to be at work by 9:00 am I can leave as late as 8:40 am (though I try to leave earlier than that). If I were to take the bus I would have to be at the stop an hour earlier (7:36) and would still get to work just before 9:00 (8:44). I would also have to sit in the downtown bus terminal (not the friendliest place in the world) for a while. To get home I would have to hang around at work for an extra hour and 45 minutes before I could get on the bus and then I'd spend another hour and 39 minutes in transit before getting back to the end of my street at 8:22 pm. Considering that my truck gets me about 16 mpg city, at $4.00 a gallon (I paid $3.75 yesterday) I am spending about $8 a day in gas. Bus fares would run me $5 even, so I'm basically paying $1/hour for the extra 3 hours of free time I get by driving.

--Jason

[the_ancient]

A lot of European countries have much higher gas prices than we do. At the same time, though, their entire countries are often smaller than the size of our of our states, and from what I've heard commutes tend to be shorter and mass transit tends to be much better than it is in most US cities.

ahhhhh I get his post now....

People have to remember that EU is extremely high taxation because of their Socialist programs, on average 60% of the price of gas is Taxation in the EU, if our government ever tried something stupid like that, there would be a violent revolution.

Our taxation is Bad enough, hovering at about 20% on average.

Live Free, or Die...

I would rather Die than have socialist EU style government where I work 75% of the time just to pay my taxes....

[Gwaihir]

At the same time, though, their entire countries are often smaller than the size of our of our states, and from what I've heard commutes tend to be shorter and mass transit tends to be much better than it is in most US cities.

I think the size and variation in size of European countries maps fairly well to the size of your states, actually. Mine, the Netherlands, mapping to one of your small, densely populated east coast states.

I wish the shorter commutes were (still) true; I'd take your 20 minutes any day . At the moment (I work projects of a few months, on location) my average is 1:45 hours single trip. That's by car, as mass transit would add another 0:45.

You're right that mass transit is taken more seriously here, though it is also more expensive if your $5 is a good indicator. Still, while good for some trips, it is poor (or as practically unusable as you sketch) for others.

I'm not interested in a debate on how high taxes over all should be, or what the ideal after tax price of gas would be. But, taking for fact that some level of tax is to be levied, I am wondering whether gas is really such a bad thing to tax. Europe shows you that it doesn't as automatically bring your economy to a stop as you seem to think. The main impact seems to be that the average car driven here does twice the miles per gallon of your average car. Is that really such a bad way to go about the use of a finite and environment taxing substance?

[the_ancient]

I'm not interested in a debate on how high taxes over all should be, or what the ideal after tax price of gas would be. But, taking for fact that some level of tax is to be levied, I am wondering whether gas is really such a bad thing to tax. Europe shows you that it doesn't as automatically bring your economy to a stop as you seem to think. The main impact seems to be that the average car driven here does twice the miles per gallon of your average car. Is that really such a bad way to go about the use of a finite and environment taxing substance?

This shows a fundamental difference is how people from the EU and Real American view taxation.

Taxation is not meant to change people or things, Governments need to provide Certain things, Roads for example, taxation should be used to get enough money to fund those project, nothing more.

It should not be "so your use less gas"

It goes back the the Basic Differance between us and the rest of the world, To you, the government is your master, To us we are the governments master...

[Frank Broughton]

I would much rather there be a tax on an usable item that is tangible like gas than an arbitrary item like my property. A value that is determined by a drive by - via an accessor.

[Gwaihir]

This shows a fundamental difference is how people from the EU and Real American view taxation.

Taxation is not meant to change people or things, Governments need to provide Certain things, Roads for example, taxation should be used to get enough money to fund those project, nothing more.

It should not be "so your use less gas"

It goes back the the Basic Differance between us and the rest of the world, To you, the government is your master, To us we are the governments master...

That's silly. It is unavoidable that taxation influences behaviour and of course taxation is done specifically to fund government expenses. What else? Do you think we have taxes just because we want to discourage certain behaviour and then throw that money away?

You say you want the government to pay for roads, but you find it unfair if it pays those roads by taxing fuel? What would be a fairer thing to tax for that then?

Given that taxation will influence behaviour, the best influence possible is IMHO the internalization of external costs. You cite the part of economic theory that tells us there are public goods that are best supplied by the government, so I take it you also know the part that tells about external costs and how the government can internalize them through taxation. We call that "the polluter pays". Personally I find it a far easier concept to swallow than progressive income tax.

[the_ancient]

That's silly. It is unavoidable that taxation influences behaviour and of course taxation is done specifically to fund government expenses. What else? Do you think we have taxes just because we want to discourage certain behaviour and then throw that money away?

You say you want the government to pay for roads, but you find it unfair if it pays those roads by taxing fuel? What would be a fairer thing to tax for that then?

Given that taxation will influence behaviour, the best influence possible is IMHO the internalization of external costs. You cite the part of economic theory that tells us there are public goods that are best supplied by the government, so I take it you also know the part that tells about external costs and how the government can internalize them through taxation. We call that "the polluter pays". Personally I find it a far easier concept to swallow than progressive income tax.

I never said I was against gas taxation, I said Gas Taxation should not be more than the level needed to fund the roads, they should not increase taxation to curb usage, then find away to spend the money on something else. You think 100% of your gas Taxes are solely for roads???

Hell our government uses about 10% of the money collected in on gas Taxes for transportation related program...

I am all for Consumption based Taxation, I love the fair tax and other programs like it.

But take smoking, They want people to stop smoking, so they Add a Tax To it, now they have this extra money so they create a socialist health program to spend that money on. Which no only is unconstitutional, Today in the USA programs are created from Taxation, Meaning someone wants to alter some activity, be it gas consumption, smoking, drinking pick your "evil" they create a tax to do that, then create a program to use the money on...

If a "problem" warrant government solution, i.e basic infrastructure (roads) then a program should be created to solve and a taxation plan equal to what the program would need should be created.


It matters not anyway, Like the Rest of the world people here have taken up the Socialist Mantra... It will bankrupt us as it is most of the world, Government Health care, Welfare, Social Security, etc etc etc, all are bad, unamerican, unconstitutional, programs...

[Vin DSL]

Live Free, or Die...

I would rather Die than have socialist EU style government where I work 75% of the time just to pay my taxes....

True story!

I know a guy that felt that way - a co-worker of several years - and, he decided to do something about it!

He took early retirement, abandoned his family, and became a 'street person'.

Some of my other co-workers were concerned about him. After looking for him almost a year, they found out he was living under a bridge on I-10.

After 4-5 years of this, he finally had enough of living his dream, and came back to work (about a year ago) and doesn't seem any worse for wear.

Anyway, the reason I bring this up is... hell, you aren't *free* you Indiana hick! You got a ring through your nose, just like the rest of us!

I don't know who you *think* you're kidding, but you're obviously fooling yourself, if you think you're free.

I digress...

It took me a long time to figure out why ppl would rather listen to a lie - like you're spouting - rather than the truth. Moreover, ppl will believe a lie before they believe the truth... and that's what you're doing!

Truth - this is NOT a free country!

Having said that, your lie sounds better! Why is that?

Ppl prefer lies to truth because... they are used to lieing to themselves - and that's what you're doing, Mr Freedumb!

Anyway, I'll stop - that's MY RANT for the day...