Drilling in ANWR Would Save 75 cents a barrel

[Pawel Kowalski]

This was brought up the other day when talking about energy demands and I came across this today, a report released by the DOE at the request of Ted Stevens:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/38223.html

WASHINGTON — If Congress were to open up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling, crude oil prices would probably drop by an average of only 75 cents a barrel, according to Department of Energy projections issued Thursday.

The report, which was requested in December by Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, found that oil production in the refuge "is not projected to have a large impact on world oil prices."

Destroy a bunch of protected wilderness to see absolutely no savings in oil prices? No thanks.

And on a related note I thought this was kind of funny:

[the_ancient]

This was brought up the other day when talking about energy demands and I came across this today, a report released by the DOE at the request of Ted Stevens:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/38223.html



Destroy a bunch of protected wilderness to see absolutely no savings in oil prices? No thanks.

BS,

First of we are talking about less than 8% of ANWR that would be effected,

plus the SECOND the US got serious about developing our own oil fields, including drilling an ANWR the price of oil would drop, not because we put more on the market, but because speculation would end, and the other oil producing nations would ramp up production...

This has happened before, and happen again.....

the Actual Amount of oil we get out of ANWR is irrelevant, it is the PSYCHOLOGICAL impact that matters

//PS I removed your stupid cartoon, If bush stood up to our enemy and refused all oil from you, you would be all up and arms over $10 gal gas, or maybe you would not, since you want to bring the Communism your family ran from, here..... for some reason....

[Pawel Kowalski]

BS,

First of we are talking about less than 8% of ANWR that would be effected,

plus the SECOND the US got serious about developing our own oil fields, including drilling an ANWR the price of oil would drop, not because we put more on the market, but because speculation would end, and the other oil producing nations would ramp up production...

This has happened before, and happen again.....

the Actual Amount of oil we get out of ANWR is irrelevant, it is the PSYCHOLOGICAL impact that matters

Don't shoot the messanger. Again, that is your opinon which you aren't basing on any research. The DOE, which did base their opinion on research, disagrees. And this is not some partisan organization, this study was requested by a guy that has been trying to open up anwr for drilling his entire career.

//PS I removed your stupid cartoon, If bush stood up to our enemy and refused all oil from you, you would be all up and arms over $10 gal gas, or maybe you would not, since you want to bring the Communism your family ran from, here..... for some reason....

Get a sense of humor. And who said anything about refusing oil? again, stop using strawman arguments. I just think it's kind of silly for the most powerful man in the world to be going overseas to a country that supports terrorism and begging them to lower their oil prices.

[Frank Broughton]

Destroy a bunch of protected wilderness to see absolutely no savings in oil prices? No thanks.

I love the wilderness as much as any. I have some virgin forest 15 minutes from my house and dedicated a page on my photography site to it: http://www.frankbroughton.us/zoar_valley.html

BUT we are talking a postage size stamp compared to a tennis court.

I just think it's kind of silly for the most powerful man in the world to be going overseas to a country that supports terrorism and begging them to lower their oil prices.

You do not know what was said or how it was said or what the real answer was. You just hear tainted news by those who in reality hate our country - MSNBC etc.

[Pawel Kowalski]

I love the wilderness as much as any. I have some virgin forest 15 minutes from my house and dedicated a page on my photography site to it: http://www.frankbroughton.us/zoar_valley.html

BUT we are talking a postage size stamp compared to a tennis court.

Why why would you do this if there is absolutely no benefit to you? 75 cents a barrel isn't worth lifting your finger for and by the_ancient's estimates 8% of ANWR would be affected. That's not that small chunck especially when we are talking about that kind of land mass.

You do not know what was said or how it was said or what the real answer was. You just hear tainted news by those who in reality hate our country - MSNBC etc.

Again, it was a joke.

And I agree the media in this country is destroying us, but I would probably cite different facts to prove that than you would. I just don't see how that in any way is related to this discussion.

[the_ancient]

Don't shoot the messanger. Again, that is your opinon which you aren't basing on any research. The DOE, which did base their opinion on research, disagrees. And this is not some partisan organization, this study was requested by a guy that has been trying to open up anwr for drilling his entire career.

My "opinion" is based on historical fact... so it is not a "opinion"

the DOE's report only looks at the direct impact of dumping 3-4 billion b/d on the market, Which would have litle to know impact, but if the US is seen as trying to become energy independent, the OPEC and others will dump large qty's of oil on the market to lower the price in the hopes it will stop us from proceeding, this had happened before, and can happen again.

But as long as we refuse to do anything to increase or energy independence they have no incentive to lower the price, NONE, as it stand now, World oil production is 85 billion / day, consumption is 86, thus we have less supply and more demand which raises prices, but the lack in supply is not enough to cause a panic, it is "just right" for OPEC, if we change that dynamic, you will see massive change..

Get a sense of humor. And who said anything about refusing oil? again, stop using strawman arguments. I just think it's kind of silly for the most powerful man in the world to be going overseas to a country that supports terrorism and begging them to lower their oil prices.

First off he was not asking for a reduction in price, he was asking for a increase in production. Big Difference, He has to go over there and ask for that because your liberal buddies on congress refuse to allow us to increase our own production...

[Pawel Kowalski]

My "opinion" is based on historical fact... so it is not a "opinion"

Which historical fact? Did oil prices go down when this happened:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5318776.stm

I think they close to doubled since then, haven't they:

http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CO/W

Or did they drop when we released our strategic oil reserves? Or did they drop this week when we stopped pumping those same reserves?

the DOE's report only looks at the direct impact of dumping 3-4 billion b/d on the market, Which would have litle to know impact, but if the US is seen as trying to become energy independent, the OPEC and others will dump large qty's of oil on the market to lower the price in the hopes it will stop us from proceeding, this had happened before, and can happen again.

But as long as we refuse to do anything to increase or energy independence they have no incentive to lower the price, NONE, as it stand now, World oil production is 85 billion / day, consumption is 86, thus we have less supply and more demand which raises prices, but the lack in supply is not enough to cause a panic, it is "just right" for OPEC, if we change that dynamic, you will see massive change..

The DOE report completely contradicts you. You say they would increase production, yet the report said that if we drilled in ANWR OPEC would lower production to increase prices:

EIA said its projection is that ANWR oil production would amount to 0.4 percent to 1.2 percent of total world oil consumption in 2030. The figure is low enough that OPEC could neutralize any price impact by decreasing supplies to match the additional production from Alaska, EIA noted.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/...il-prices.html

Your suggestion that they would increase production doesn't make any business sense for them.

First off he was not asking for a reduction in price, he was asking for a increase in production. Big Difference, He has to go over there and ask for that because your liberal buddies on congress refuse to allow us to increase our own production...

Right, you increase production the price drops, not that hard to understand. So he was begging a country that supports terrorism in Iraq to produce more oil so the price would drop, and they told him to **** off. But that didn't stop Bush from holding their hand (literally). And yes, the fact Bush made him self and this country look pitiful is the fault of those evil no good liberals, none of this is his fault even if him and his party controlled everything for the last 6 of 7 1/2 years. For someone that claims to be disconnected from the republican party you sure are making a lot of excuses for one of the worst presidents this country has ever seen.

And what exactly have the liberals done to stop us from increasing our production? The only case I am aware of is this anwr thing, I could be wrong. But if I'm not wrong then even you would have to admit they are totally right based on this report.

[the_ancient]

But if I'm not wrong then even you would have to admit they are totally right based on this report.

Discovery is not increasing supply, your liberal friends not only will not allow ANWR but they also will not allow Coastal Drilling, Coal Liquification, nuclear Power, Midwest Oil Development, and anything else that would increase our energy independence, the only thing they are worried about is "oil profits" and "windfall taxes"

the ONLY energy thing they have embraced is Starch based Ethanol, one of the least efficient forms of Ethanol, that actually takes MORE oil to produce than normal gas and are now back peddling on because of Increased Food Prices. Starch based Ethanol has never and will never be successful


AS far as the "republicans" go, it breaks down like this

Republicans == Liberals
Democrats == Extremist Socialist Liberals

And Bush is far far far from the Worst President, that just goes to show out little you know about American History....

[Frank Broughton]

even if him and his party controlled everything for the last 6 of 7 1/2 years.

This statement is a complete and utter falsehood. When for the small amount of time the Republicans held a slight majority a good portion of the Democrats became expert obstructionists. NOTHING was accomplished nor can be in the environment.

Ethic change after charge ad nauseam against the speaker, he was handcuffed yet did manage to get much passed in spite of the Kennedy's, Byrd's and ilk.

I am no Republican, left the party when the best speaker they had in a long time was shown the door. Left with a good amount of "the contract" boys. Some statesmen like Steve Largent and JC Watts, John Kasich, and the one who unfortunately is on MSNBC now.

No my web friend, we have never seen what could have been.

The Boxers and Feingolds and such made sure of that.

Republicans == Liberals
Democrats == Extremist Socialist Liberals

And Bush is far far far from the Worst President, that just goes to show out little you know about American History....

You nailed it pretty good... Shall we say Jimmy Carter arg! Also add to the Democrats - baby killers, thieves, organized mafia, and more I could say but would be really offensive to my web friends here at JPC!

[Pawel Kowalski]

Frank, are you kidding me? The democrats have been nothing but cowards while republicans held control. Can you name one thing they obstructed in (other than judicial appointments, something they still backed down on 9 times out of 10)? It's like they didn't know what a fillibuster was until they gained the majority and the republicans started using it. Harry Reid seemed like he was in shock when republicans started using it for virtually everything they tried to pass. In fact I would be willing to bet you that the republicans have fillibustered more legislation in the last year than the democrats did during their 6 year minority. I don't know where to check that so if anyone does please do, because I am almost certain I am right on that.

And what could have been? 10 trillion dollars in debt, an unwinable war, 4 dollars a gallon at the pump, etc, etc, etc. No thanks, I'm glad they lost control before they could do any more damage (now we just have to pray Bush doesn't do anything stupid in regards to Iran before he leaves office, having this guy in control of our military scares the living crap out of me).

Ancient, trust me, I would love nothing more than to debate with you how horrible this president has been over the last 7 years. I could name how we were lied in to a war. How this administration fired prosecutors for political reasons. How americans were spied on. How we have accumulated this defecit. How just today the pentagon reported they can't find 15 billion dollars. How everything they do is based on politics, wether it be whoring religion or putting horses lawyers in charge of FEMA, and nothing they do based on principle. Or I could name any of the other things I have on my list which is far too big to spell out here.

But the main point here is that drilling in ANWR is simply not worth the damage it would do to the enviroment, something you seem to be ducking me on now. You can look at this report honestly and come to the same conclusion I have or you can be so hard headed that no amount of evidance could change your mind. Let me know which one it is.

the ONLY energy thing they have embraced is Starch based Ethanol, one of the least efficient forms of Ethanol, that actually takes MORE oil to produce than normal gas and are now back peddling on because of Increased Food Prices. Starch based Ethanol has never and will never be successful

Congratulations, something we can finally agree on (well that and nuclear power). Ethenol from corn is one of the biggest scams out there and should have never made its way in to an energy bill (which I dont have to remind you was done with the support of the republican congress at the time). Who would have thunk it, 2 poeple that are probably polar opposites politics wise agree on something and our government doesn't give a crap. Maybe its time for Ron Paul 08? Not sure if I'm quite ready to make that leap but it might end up being better than the 2 remaining options we have.

[Pawel Kowalski]

left the party when the best speaker they had in a long time was shown the door

Just wanted to comment on this very quickly. You can't possibly mean Trent Lott? He was shown the door for a very good reason, unless you agree that saying "things would have been much better for this country if Strom Thurmond was elected" was an accurate statement?

[the_ancient]

And what could have been? 10 trillion dollars in debt, an unwinable war, 4 dollars a gallon at the pump, etc, etc, etc. No thanks, I'm glad they lost control before they could do any more damage (now we just have to pray Bush doesn't do anything stupid in regards to Iran before he leaves office, having this guy in control of our military scares the living crap out of me).

Ancient, trust me, I would love nothing more than to debate with you how horrible this president has been over the last 7 years. I could name how we were lied in to a war.

Peace at any prices, even the chains of slavery right?
Let me guess if someone breaks in to your home your going to be on your knees begging for you life while hoping the police come on time...

How this administration fired prosecutors for political reasons.

the prosecutors were fired because they refused to do what their boss told them, If I refuse to do what my boss tells me I would be fired to...

How americans were spied on.

Americans are spied on every day, this is nothing new, the differance was that even under Bush's program it would have been able to be thrown out by a judge, all you Dems did was make it perfectly legal and allow them to use the taps for EVERYTHING not just terrorists...

the NSA and the CIA will continue to do it, as they should, you can send them paper all day long, the program will just go black.....

Plus there is ZERO proof that Domestic-Domestic calls where Impacted.

How we have accumulated this defecit.

Partly because your Hero Bill Clinton was a "military hater" like you, and dismantled it. We Bush took office he was left with a Military in Shambles

How just today the pentagon reported they can't find 15 billion dollars.

Not True, they know where the money went generally, some one just lost the receipts or did not file the paperwork...

if you want to talk about Waste, hmmm 500Billion is wasted every year on SS.... (yes that is a WASTE)

How everything they do is based on politics, wether it be whoring religion or putting horses lawyers in charge of FEMA, and nothing they do based on principle.

:ROFL: and that Democrats are the Bastien of principle

//side bar: FEMA == Unconstitutional and should not exstit

Or I could name any of the other things I have on my list which is far too big to spell out here.

But the main point here is that drilling in ANWR is simply not worth the damage it would do to the enviroment, something you seem to be ducking me on now. You can look at this report honestly and come to the same conclusion I have or you can be so hard headed that no amount of evidance could change your mind. Let me know which one it is.

To you there is never a case where Drilling would be "worth it" so why waste by breath? you would love to see the downfall of the United States and the Raise of the United Socialist States.

Sadly I feel you will get your wish, I only ask, when it happens, go to your Parents as you beg the government for a loaf of bread and tell them your sorry for supporting what they tried to get away from........

Live free, or Die............ I will pick the latter.

Congratulations, something we can finally agree on (well that and nuclear power). Ethenol from corn is one of the biggest scams out there and should have never made its way in to an energy bill (which I dont have to remind you was done with the support of the republican congress at the time). Who would have thunk it, 2 poeple that are probably polar opposites politics wise agree on something and our government doesn't give a crap. Maybe its time for Ron Paul 08? Not sure if I'm quite ready to make that leap but it might end up being better than the 2 remaining options we have.

Your dont want Ron Paul, he stands for everything you dont, Freedom........

[Pawel Kowalski]

Lol, I just wrote a long post responding to everything and right before I was about to submit I accidentally hit a link on my link bar and everything disappeared when I hit the back button (does firefox clear forms sometimes too? If not that might be reason enough for me to switch, I am sick of this happening).

I don't feel like retyping that now so I'll just stick to ANWR for now.

Are you seriously incapable of making a point without using straw man arguments? If ANWR was some kind of magic wand that did anything to put a big dent in how much oil we import I would be for it. Yet you have evidance of this not doing absolutely anything for our dependance on foreign oil, all it would do is enrich the oil companies. And knowing this you still want to drill up there without being able to explain to me why. So let me flip your straw man around and make it accurate, you are in favor of destroying parts of ANWR just for the hell of it, even if no benefit comes from doing so. The question again is why?

Your dont want Ron Paul, he stands for everything you dont, Freedom........

Ron Paul stands for changing the politics in this country. 95% of this country would never allow him to do most of what he wants to do.

[the_ancient]

Lol, I just wrote a long post responding to everything and right before I was about to submit I accidentally hit a link on my link bar and everything disappeared when I hit the back button (does firefox clear forms sometimes too? If not that might be reason enough for me to switch, I am sick of this happening).

I have never had that problem with FF, All other browsers Bow to FF

I don't feel like retyping that now so I'll just stick to ANWR for now.

Are you seriously incapable of making a point without using straw man arguments? If ANWR was some kind of magic wand that did anything to put a big dent in how much oil we import I would be for it. Yet you have evidance of this not doing absolutely anything for our dependance on foreign oil, all it would do is enrich the oil companies. And knowing this you still want to drill up there without being able to explain to me why. So let me flip your straw man around and make it accurate, you are in favor of destroying parts of ANWR just for the hell of it, even if no benefit comes from doing so. The question again is why?

I am for getting retrieving any and all oil deposits with in our borders, not matter how small or large.

Ron Paul stands for changing the politics in this country. 95% of this country would never allow him to do most of what he wants to do.

Ron Paul stands for restoring constitutional powers which includes ending all of the social programs you love, SocSec, Welfare, Medicade, etc, ALL OF THEM

[Pawel Kowalski]

I have never had that problem with FF, All other browsers Bow to FF

Yeah, but M$ has my by the balls because of sharepoint and outlook web access. But the problem of losing information on forms when you hit the back button is really starting to be a total pain in the butt.

I am for getting retrieving any and all oil deposits with in our borders, not matter how small or large.

I really don't know what to say to that. I'm by no means an enviromental nazi, but I would never allow thousands of square miles of protected wilderness to be destroyed just for the hell of it (because this is what it amounts to). I'm sorry you feel different, I'm glad most rational people would disagree.

which includes ending all of the social programs you love, SocSec, Welfare, Medicade, etc, ALL OF THEM

He also stands for completely slashing military funding as well as getting our bases out of the middle east as well as the rest of the world, cutting off any support to Israel, and withdrawing our troops from Iraq. This country would never allow him to do that nor would they allow him to remove all social services. Which was my point.