For those of us in the USA Click here for a Solution to our Problems

**the_ancient** · 10-01-2008, 11:47 AM

This has been around for a while, but In light of our current Problems (of which BTW the bailout will not solve and will probably destroy the economy not help it, no matter what cNBC says) I feel the need to post this.

changes to PDf because Text formating sucks

**Pawel Kowalski** · 10-01-2008, 11:53 AM

Good luck. I'll stick with keeping it simple by just voting for Obama in November. It won't fix many of our problems but at least it will get us on the right track.

**the_ancient** · 10-01-2008, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Pawel Kowalski

Good luck. I'll stick with keeping it simple by just voting for Obama in November. It won't fix many of our problems but at least it will get us on the right track.

I just fell over in my chair laughing.......

Karl Marx errrrr Obama, King Socialist will save us?

You like Bread Lines huh?

**the_ancient** · 10-01-2008, 11:57 AM

BTW have you ever Been to Chicago? EVERY politician in Chicago is Corrupt, Obama is/was no different

**Pawel Kowalski** · 10-01-2008, 12:20 PM

You are absolutely right, the last 8 years of republican control have went so well we need 8 more. In case you haven't noticed we are now on the verge of breadlines because of the so called free market, socialism nor Obama had anything to do with it.

Funny you should mention corruption. I do like your reasoning, Obama lived in Chicago therefore he is corrupt. I guess you apply that exact same logic to Palin who is from Alaska, the captial of corruption (look up Ted "Series of tubes" Stevens) and bs earmarks? Or is this going to be another example of your hypocrisy?

**the_ancient** · 10-01-2008, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Pawel Kowalski

You are absolutely right, the last 8 years of republican control have went so well we need 8 more. In case you haven't noticed we are now on the verge of breadlines because of the so called free market, socialism nor Obama had anything to do with it.

Funny you should mention corruption. I do like your reasoning, Obama lived in Chicago therefore he is corrupt. I guess you apply that exact same logic to Palin who is from Alaska, the captial of corruption (look up Ted "Series of tubes" Stevens) and bs earmarks? Or is this going to be another example of your hypocrisy?

ROFL, There are more than 2 choices....

This is the problem, McCain is a Liberal, Obama is a Communist

Neither Believe in Freedom or Liberty

**Pawel Kowalski** · 10-01-2008, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by the_ancient

ROFL, There are more than 2 choices....

This is the problem, McCain is a Liberal, Obama is a Communist

Neither Believe in Freedom or Liberty

You didn't answer my question. Do you apply the same corruption logic to Palin?

And you think there are more than 2 choices? I took you for a lot of things, but naive wasn't one of them.

**the_ancient** · 10-01-2008, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Pawel Kowalski

You didn't answer my question. Do you apply the same corruption logic to Palin?

And you think there are more than 2 choices? I took you for a lot of things, but naive wasn't one of them.

She may or may not be, the VP has no real power so here "corruption" mean nothing, the President on the other hand does have alot of power so Obama's corruption does come in to play...

**the_ancient** · 10-01-2008, 12:30 PM

ohh and as far as being Naive, I refuse to vote for the "lesser of 2 evils" any more. I will vote for a 3rd party or not all, Parties have fallen in the past and one of these 2 will, WILL in the next 5 years as well....

**Pawel Kowalski** · 10-01-2008, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by the_ancient

She may or may not be, the VP has no real power so here "corruption" mean nothing, the President on the other hand does have alot of power so Obama's corruption does come in to play...

I would love to have a discussion with you on how much potential power she has. But I would really like you to answer my question like a normal person, not like a politician.

You said that just by virtue of living in Chicago Obama is corrupt. So why are you willing to give Palin "may/may not be" while you flat out claim Obama is? Again, is this a case of hypocrisy or will you apply the same standard to her?

And after you address this get ready to address the Keating 5, because I'm about to bring that up too since we are talking about corruption (just want to be sure you are ready).

**Pawel Kowalski** · 10-01-2008, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by the_ancient

ohh and as far as being Naive, I refuse to vote for the "lesser of 2 evils" any more. I will vote for a 3rd party or not all, Parties have fallen in the past and one of these 2 will, WILL in the next 5 years as well....

Yup, people that voted for Nader had the same mindset as you. Look how well that turned out for them. But please, don't let me stop you. Go vote for Barr, that's one less vote for McCain to worry about/

**the_ancient** · 10-01-2008, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Pawel Kowalski

I would love to have a discussion with you on how much potential power she has. But I would really like you to answer my question like a normal person, not like a politician.

You said that just by virtue of living in Chicago Obama is corrupt. So why are you willing to give Palin "may/may not be" while you flat out claim Obama is? Again, is this a case of hypocrisy or will you apply the same standard to her?

And after you address this get ready to address the Keating 5, because I'm about to bring that up too since we are talking about corruption (just want to be sure you are ready).

I dont know the Local Politics of Alaska to know if Alaska is Corrupt or not, you pointing to a US Congress member if Federal Corruption and Just about anyone that has been in washington for more than 30 years is probally corrupt but that has nothing to do with Alaska and everything to do with Washington (which is why I support Term Limits for Congress)

I KNOW Chicago Politics......

as far as the McCain Corruption, BOTH of them are worthless, I have stated this so what is your point....

**Pawel Kowalski** · 10-01-2008, 12:52 PM

Oh my god, you support term limits? Add that to the short list of things we agree on.

I'm glad you agree that McCain is corrupt, because there is a lot of evidance that proves this (keating 5 being the big one). And you don't need to understand local Alaksa politics to know that Palin is also corrupt. All you have to do is look at her affiliation to Ted Stevens, the tanning bed she had installed in the governor's mansion, the billions of dollars in earmarks she took, including the bridge to nowhere, and her firing of a state employee for personal family issues.

And the evidance you have of Obama's corruption? the fact he lived in Chicago. To be fair I'm sure rezko is on your list too. But when it comes to corruption I think I'll take my chances with Obama despite the Rezko thing. Like you said, you don't get to the top of politics without a little funny business, what you do once you get there is what matters in this country full of idiots.

I also would love to vote for Nader, but I'm smart enough to realize that we really only have 2 choices in this country. But don't let me convince you otherwise, get out there on election day and make a stand by voting for Bob Barr. Take as many of your conservative friends as you can

.

**the_ancient** · 10-01-2008, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Pawel Kowalski

And the evidance you have of Obama's corruption?

ACORN?????

But lets get beyond the person, and get to the ideology?

Why do you hate the Constitution? why Do you Hate Freedom? Why do you hate personal responsibility? Why do want to punish success and reward layzness

Obama want to do away with many sections of the constitution the 2nd amendment being 1st on the list, Obama believes in Class war fare and that if your successful the government has the right to seize that success to distribute that weath to others.

Obama wants to destroy the greatest heath care system in the world,

Obama wants to Make your Children and Grand Children be on the hook for TRILLIONS of added social program.

Obama has no concept of the 10th amendment

Obama wants to give a free pass to 10-20million criminals

Obama whats to tie our national security to pie in the sky energy plans.

Obama will turn the USA into the USSA, you want that?

**Pawel Kowalski** · 10-01-2008, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by the_ancient

ACORN?????

Is this going to be another game of six degrees of separation?

But lets get beyond the person, and get to the ideology?

Sure, lets...

Why do you hate the Constitution? why Do you Hate Freedom? Why do you hate personal responsibility? Why do want to punish success and reward layzness

Wow, that's a lot things you just pulled out of thin air.

Obama want to do away with many sections of the constitution the 2nd amendment being 1st on the list, Obama believes in Class war fare and that if your successful the government has the right to seize that success to distribute that weath to others.

Obama wants to take away the second amendment? Surely you have some proof of this. Or is his support for an assult weapons ban your proof of this? Because most rational people don't believe regular citizens need military grade weapons.

Obama wants to destroy the greatest heath care system in the world,

Actually our health care system is not the greatest in the world, it is ranked 37th by the WHO, pretty much the same ranking Cuba gets. Not to mention a survey done of the top 6 industrialized nations the only country that had a longer wait time than us for medical treatment was Canada.

So contrary to your claim that Obama wants to destroy our health care system (which is broken) he actually wants to fix it. And I personally don't think he's going far enough with his plan.

Obama wants to Make your Children and Grand Children be on the hook for TRILLIONS of added social program.

So does McCain.

Obama has no concept of the 10th amendment

No, he has no concept of your understanding of the 10th amendment. In fact I'm pretty sure the supreme court doesn't either. I don't think I have to mention where McCain stands on this.

Obama wants to give a free pass to 10-20million criminals

Coming here to work so you could provide your family with a better life is not criminal in my opinion. What is it that you said about laws in that CSS thread just a couple of hours ago? Again, I don't have to remind you where McCain stands, do I?

Obama whats to tie our national security to pie in the sky energy plans.

This statement makes absolutely no sense, care to explain?

Obama will turn the USA into the USSA, you want that?

Again, opinions are like...