PayPal Sucks (???)

[Galen]

This could be another one of those stupid Internet conspiracy things, but it's got me a least a BIT worried. Thought I'd share.

PayPalSucks.com

[Gwaihir]

No conspiracy. I'm still a fairly happy Paypal user but am glad to have that site around too. It seems that some companies need a counterweight like that to stay more or less sane.

As for it's contents: I guess it tells you can't afford to rely on the Paypal system or the funds in your account too much. Look for diversifying long before "Paypal troubles" could bring your business down.

[Vin DSL]

Word to the wise... I keep a totally seperate bank account to service my PayPal account, at a totally different institution than my regular bank accounts, and I don't leave a plug nickel in it. That way, if push comes to shove, they can't screw me too badly...

[ParksWC]

While some of the comments made may be close to the truth, many are not.

Note also who they are advertising yowcow.com (a competitor).
Also they remark on the fees, one mentioning a merchant account only charges so much..... yeah they only charge that after you spend $100+ to set the account up, plus monthly fees, plus extra charges if the customer cancels the order and you have to refund the charge. Also extra charges if the card is a fake.

PayPal doesn't charge for refunds, in fact they will refund the charges they charged you for the original transaction.
I looked through PayPal and couldn't find anything about waiving of rights. Also this website failes to mention PayPal is FDIC insured.

Of course there are problems, there are millions of people with accounts there and there are hundreds, if not thousands of people that try to hack accounts. Same with online banking though.

The site has all the smells of a competitor trying to make it look like a

[orbic1]

I use WorldPay. We considered PayPal as an option. Whilst PayPal gives you more info from the outset about it's integration, WorldPay seem smuch better overall. Plus - they are part of a real bank (RBS Group) so are governed by more strict rules etc.

[Gwaihir]

For Europe I can advise Moneybookers.com.

Cheaper. Also under stricter government rules. Generally no chargeback risks. Direct (generally free) uploading from bank accounts all over Europe. Affordable and easy escrow possible as part of the same system.

Sadly hard to upload money to their system from the US.

[Connie]

I have been a user of Pay Pal since early 2000. I do not accept payments by Pay Pal although I could. I use Pay Pal relunctly to pay merchants who only accept Pay Pal. Since E-Bay acquired Pay Pay there have been a lot of problem for the merchant who received the payment.

I belong to a group of small business owners. Many of them only accept Pay Pal. Since E-Bay acquired Pay Pal there have been several people post to our newsletter about how Pay Pal locked their bank account because of a customer complaint. In some instances it took weeks to resolve the dispute. In the meantime the merchants bank account was tied up.

If your doing business on-line there are some risk involved. Since 2000 I have had 3 charge backs from the major credit card providers.
1 from Visa, 1 from MasterCard, and 1 from Amex. We lost all 3 charge backs even though the AVS Matched and we had proof of delivery to the address.

The Visa charge back was filed 6 months after the customer received the product.

However, the disputes only cost us the amount charged to the credit card.

Pay Pal will lock you entire account down until the issue is resolved.

Believe me. Regardles of how you receive payments, the purcharser has more rights than you as an on-line merchant.

[Gwaihir]

Originally posted by clssam
I belong to a group of small business owners. Many of them only accept Pay Pal. Since E-Bay acquired Pay Pal there have been several people post to our newsletter about how Pay Pal locked their bank account because of a customer complaint. In some instances it took weeks to resolve the dispute. In the meantime the merchants bank account was tied up.

Ehm let me get this straight: they locked down a bank account, not only the PayPal account? Really? Under what circumstances can they do that? Was that account used for withdraws only? Or not even that?

Have they been forced to pay retribution later? Man.. locking down a very active PayPal account is bad - but somewhat understandable provided it doesn't last too long - but your bank account(s) too?

Do I need to get an extra bank account just to withdraw Paypal funds through, or won't that help either? If my (primary; basically only) bank account would be locked for a while I couldn't stay in business long

clssam, I hope you can answer some of these questions. If you don't feel comfortable posting it out here, then I hope you'll PM me.

[ParksWC]

I think clssam meant your paypal account.
Paypal can't lock your bank account. They have no authority to do such things. Only the bank of Federal government could do such a thing.

Paypal can lock your paypal account if they get a lot of complaints, which if they are then maybe that account needs to be investigated.

[Vin DSL]

Originally posted by ParksWC
Paypal can't lock your bank account. They have no authority to do such things...

I'm afraid this is a moot point. If you get into a dispute with PayPal, they can, and will, empty your bank account, transfer the money to your PayPal account and freeze it, providing you with no access to said money.

Essentially, it's the same as locking your bank account...

[Connie]

Originally posted by Vin DSL
I'm afraid this is a moot point. If you get into a dispute with PayPal, they can, and will, empty your bank account, transfer the money to your PayPal account and freeze it, providing you with no access to said money.

Essentially, it's the same as locking your bank account...

It was my understanding that it was their bank accounts. They probably did not have the funds in theri Pay Pal account.

If there is a dispute on a business account as Vin stated all Pay Pal has to do is withdraw your funds.

In the 2 instances I refered to it was months before the issue was resolved.
Pay Pal would not respond to e-mail from the merchant.

I don't use Pay Pal to receive payments and I doubt that anyone who does not receive payments through Pay Pay will ever have a problem.

There have been ongoing problems with Pay Pal ever since EBay acquired them. Most of those problems relate to EBay purchases. In fact the problems I orginally referred to were EBay purchases.

[ParksWC]

First,
Paypal will not transfer all your money from your bank account and then lock your paypal account.

When you set a bank account up with paypal you are simply using the bank account to verify you are who you are also as a means of easily transfering paypal account money to your bank and vise versa.
In fact, if you do not verify with a bank account, you can still receive money (with a limit to the amount a month) and they will mail you a check when your balance reaches a certain amount.

I dont know where some of these people are getting these ideas.
Paypal does not own your bank account. They have no rights to the money in it anymore then a stranger on the street. The can not transfer money to or from your account without your permission and allowing it.

Come on guys/gals relax. Your bank, your money.
Paypal CAN lock your paypal account and prevent you from transacting business through it.

That is all, of course if you are frauding people you will probably end up in jail but that will be the government not paypal.

Mike

[Galen]

That's not what thousands of others are saying (including a few ex-employees of PayPal. Also, if you check out some of the links on paypalsucks.com, you'll see that major media outlets (New York Times, Washington Post, etc) have done stories on these problems with PayPal. Perhaps a few people online are blowing things out of proportion, but the involvement of major media outlets lends a LOT of credence to their claims.

[cinderblock]

Personally, Paypal hsa been good to me and like clssam I have been usign since it started, I have sent and recieved large and small amounts of cash with no problems so far (knock on wood) but I also agree with Vin DSL in hacing a completely separate account to be used specifically for paypal transactions(this is prob why I have never had any problems with them).

Its not a matter of wether Paypal is evil or not, its more along the lines of how smart with money one is.

that is all.

--este

[ParksWC]

I agree with the idea of having a separate account. Not because Paypal can take your money from the account, which they can't - at least legally, but because of hackers.

The best setup I think is two checking accounts. One is your personal, one is for Paypal. Both are setup with online banking so you can easily transfer your money between them.