Internet Radio

[Jari]

Hi all!
So far I am very satisfied with all the package and the service and all the helpful members here at jaguarpc.com - thanks to all

Now that most of the stuff that I seriously need is configured to work properly, I thought that it might be cool to have an own internet radio, where I could announce meetings and stuff like that.

Now here are my two questions:

1) Is it allowed to run a radio-software on my Gigadeal-account as long as it does not exceed the traffic limit? I plan to do about one or two broadcastings per week, which would last approximately 90 minutes each.

2) Which software would you suggest? It would be cool to be able to select multiple inputs e.g. microphone, wave, line-in, ... or maybe something like "all you hear" (I had an option like this on my old Soundblaster). What for? For instance I thought about "phone calls" that I could insert _live_ into the stream, maybe by using skype.
If there at all is software that will run indepentently on my Gigadeal-account. Which OS are the servers anyway? Linux I suppose.
What I want is that anyone, who would like to be the DJ for a stream, can login from anywhere and that they do not need extra high bandwith for giving about 20 people the chance to listen.

Thanks a lot and merry christmas in advance!
Jari

[FreeFall]

I have never done it from a server before, but it is possible to use Winamp/Shoutcast to do what you want.
I doubt very much it would be allowed to be run from the gigadeal servers, as it would use loads of bandwidth and eat up lots of resources (imagine 128bit/sec*20 users!).

Have you done something like this before? I would reccommend doing it from your own PC just to test it, depending on your upstream/downstream speed would determine how many listeners you could get. If you really want to do this and are happy then there are hosts who specialize in streaming media

hope that helps

[Vin DSL]

Shoutcast is the way to go, but you'll need a dedicated server...

No, we do not install/provide shoutcast servers to our shared machines. You can however do that using your own dedicated server. Perhaps a few of your users would want to lease one and share resources ?

Check our dedicated section for frequent deals .

If all you want to do is make some announcements, why don't you produce some using MP3 compression, and provide a link to them in your web space? Why do you need to stream it live?

[Vin DSL]

Which software would you suggest?

Personally, I would use RealProducer and make some RAM files. They sound fine, and don't take up a lot of space.

Here are some examples I made using RealProducer, a while back...


http://civic.lenon.com/sounds/theknack.rm

http://civic.lenon.com/sounds/lumpheads.rm

http://civic.lenon.com/sounds/y2k_microsoft.rm

http://civic.lenon.com/sounds/blackdeucecoupe01.rm

http://civic.lenon.com/sounds/if_i_kin.rm


REALPRODUCER: http://www.realnetworks.com/products/producer/

[FreeFall]

Or if you choose to do that then you could use WMP Encoder and stream, but it would takeup lots of bandwidth, if the files are say 50mb and there maybe more than 20 people that listen and they may listen more than once.
I dont think getting a dedicated server is worthwhile unless your site is big and you intend using radio alot. You can get 64k Streams for around €15/month for 20 concurrent users

[Jari]

Alright, thank you.
My own Bandwith is after all not sufficient for streaming anything.
The reason for wanting to do a live stream is the interactivity. I am a perfectionist, so I wanted to do this in the most professional way I could imagine. I've been checking out Software and found JetCast, which allows you to share the bandwith of a couple of computers, to be able to forward the stream to more listeners. Although during my testing it did not work out too well ...

Thank you for your response.
I will have to wait until some faster (and at the same time more affordable) internet-connection becomes available.

[LV89148]

I never did understand why all these internet radio stations are using winmedia and realaudio formats for streaming. Macromedia Flash actually produces superior audio streaming with much less overhead. No WinMedia or Real Media player is required, just the ubiquitous Flash plugin.

For $50 you can get Crazy Ivan's Boomer software to make it easy to drag and drop MP3's and turn it into a high-quality streaming Flash file.

http://www.gfx2swf.com/

I first heard about this when I went to http://www.lockergnome.com

If you've got broadband, here's an example of an MP3 I converted to an SWF file and streamed over the Net:

http://itvfan.com/tv/radioswf_test.html (BTW, the two second audio delay was intentionlly added to try to synchronize with anticipated graphics loading time.)

Creating source material should be relatively easy with the Creative Mediasource Organizer bundled with some of the better Creative sound cards, e.g., Creative USB Audigy 2 NX. Just plug a microphone in and/or line-level mixer and you're ready to record your MP3.

There is one minor thing about Flash-embedded MP3s, however. They have to be in one of the .swf audio standards: with sample-rates of 44.1 kHz, 22.050 kHz, 11.025 kHz, 8.000 kHz or 5.512 kHz

[tank]

true Flash streaming requires a Flash Com Server and the use of FLV files. anything else used by flash will just download via http until it can be played and wil reside in your browser cache.

The use of hinted MOV files is very good and if you know how to compress them properly your users won't have to wait until the whole thing downloads.

Realplayer files are good but unless they reside on a real streaming server they will be forced through http as well.

MP3 is by far the most robust way to deliver the media although the file size will typically be slightly larger than the propeitary codecs listed above. It also lends itself to ease of download and playback locally becasue people are familiar with it and doesn't require any other plugins.

My favorite is to you the flash method but without the Flash Com Server (too much $$$). Sorrensen makes an awesome codec called that will convert your files through a program called squeeze. I like it becasue more than likely the end user allready has the fash plugin on their PC and won't have to instal the latest real Player or Quicktime. MP3 is my second favorite but what I use most often becasue of how many people understand what an MP3 is.

[LV89148]

... anything else used by flash will just download via http until it can be played ... your users ... have to wait until the whole thing downloads.

Did you actually click on the link?

http://itvfan.com/tv/radioswf_test.html

Other than the intentional two second delay I set, the user definitely does NOT wait until the whole thing downloads. There is little delay at all. Here's another SWF-embedded MP3 file, less than one second delay before the music starts (over broadband, cache cleared):

http://itvfan.com/tv/radioswf_misty_woods.html

and another (with intentional delay):

http://itvfan.com/tv/radioswf_cult_of_personality.html

Is a Flash SWF-embedded MP3 file true streaming? Probably not since it is a fixed size file. However, for fixed timelength (one hour) voice broadcasts it can do the same thing with less fuss. The guy at Lockergnome had a one hour discussion broadcast file using SWF that was under 25MB using a well-compressed MP3 file sampled at 11MHz.

For spoken-word broadcast streaming, I also wonder if someome has done anything with the Speex codec, http://www.speex.org ?

Although I don't know about it, here's another free streaming server that support Ogg and Speex:

http://www.jcraft.com/jroar/

[LV89148]

This article also might be useful:

http://www.sonify.org/home/feature/r...025_swfplayer/

If you want, you can type in (cut'n-paste) one of these in the SWF player box at the bottom of the Sonify web page:

http://members.cox.net/o11/cultofp.swf
http://members.cox.net/o11/slowdown.swf
http://members.cox.net/o11/mistywdz.swf
http://members.cox.net/o11/poorwhites.swf

Since I didn't create the above files as described in the article, the navigation controls won't work. They have a test file on the page that does make use of the nav controls.

[DLMunson]

shoutcast on yer home connection and get some of yer willing buddies to run relay servers and rebroadcast, or atleast i think thats how it works, i read over it quick and havent tried it.

[tank]

Did you actually click on the link?

Yes I did and it downloaded via HTTP straight to my cache folder.

Other than the intentional two second delay I set, the user definitely does NOT wait until the whole thing downloads. There is little delay at all. Here's another SWF-embedded MP3 file, less than one second delay before the music starts (over broadband, cache cleared):

keyword you used being broadband Try this on a dialup and you'll be waiting forever on a 3.8 MB file. True streaming audio/video produces a variable bitrate and streams it based on connection speed and does not dowload

Is a Flash SWF-embedded MP3 file true streaming? Probably not since it is a fixed size file. However, for fixed timelength (one hour) voice broadcasts it can do the same thing with less fuss. The guy at Lockergnome had a one hour discussion broadcast file using SWF that was under 25MB using a well-compressed MP3 file sampled at 11MHz.

I think you have some misunderstandings on how true streaming vs. sending via HTTP works. Here is Apple's primer on Darwin's and their Streaming Server works: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/tools...streaming.html

In reference to this specific topic on "streaming" mp3's via swf's or flv's read straight from the horses mouth at Macromedia. You'll see they talk about 3 methods using:
1)SWF's on a non-flash com server (embeded - which is what your example above is and is not true streaming)

2)FLV's on a non-flash com server (progressive - uses a form of variable bitrate when encoded as I mentioned in my first post.)

3)FLV's on a flash com server (true streaming as mentioned before)

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/..._download.html

the article you posted is informative but a bit incorrect in regards to what he refers to as "streaming". Check out the sources I reference. They are both very reputable in regards to how their companies relate to media. Also this book: Flash MX Video is also very helpful. It is published by Friends of Ed, a very reputable website support book Publisher, and co written by my business partner Brian Monnone.