Disk Full Policy

**nrabinowitz** · 01-08-2007, 08:23 AM

This is something of an extension of the thread here: Longhorn plan... great deal? or beginning of the end?

I was attempting to upload files to my site yesterday, and to my surprise I got a "disk full" error. I'm way below my disk usage quota, and I had (foolishly) supposed that every user on my shared server (silicon) had enough space to fill their quota if necessary. I checked with tech support, and sure enough, /home was full - the server space had been overbooked. the only solution TS provided was to move my account to another server. They did, and despite their promise of a "smooth transition," immediately several things broke, including my multihosted domains. This is no surprise at all - I expected things to break, as moving an account with a lot of stuff on it and many years of support history is never "smooth," ever - but I'm a little annoyed at the policy here.

Surely "disk full" is a problem for everyone on the machine. I feel like the current policy of moving the people who complain to a new server basically punishes them for noticing first. I'm sure my new server is nice and all, but again, moving an account is *always* a hassle, it *always* has ramifications, and it's disingenuous for TS to claim otherwise. And as noted in the thread above, a new server means new, incident-prone user accounts. It seems like the customers would be better served by different policies, such as:

- The latest accounts to come in should be the ones to get moved over, for the simple reason that they're the ones least likely to have custom configurations that will be affected by an account move. I've been on silicon for 5 years; I have multihosted domains, I've asked for special software installs, I have system configurations that might be different on other machines, etc. Someone who's only been there for 2 months is less likely to have these issues.

- Don't overbook the servers. I'm sure there are economic reasons to have more user quota allocated than the actual hard disk can support, but closer monitoring of this issue would help to prevent this problem from being a regular occurrence.

Thoughts? Am I overreacting here? I should put in the obligatory comment that overall I've generally been thrilled by JPC's service - it's this particular policy that annoys me.

**JPC-Masood** · 01-08-2007, 09:46 AM

Accounts will be moved for one reason or another to a new machine. A server's life is limited. We are upgrading servers all the time to provide better services and realiability. Silicon is no exception and is marked for upgrade: one reason is disk is over booked. So yes, we are proactive and are working behind the scenes.

Account moves can have hiccups, especially as you said you had custom software installed. And since there is so much variety of software and systems involved that we can not force one system settings on all servers. Our base configuration and settings is same across the board. However when clients request some particular software/module to be installed on their server we do it if we can support it. The best approach is to keep a list of custom settings handy that you have applied to your account.

The latest accounts to come in should be the ones to get moved over,

Old servers like silicon do not get new accounts. The disk usage is all from the old clients, growing with time. In fact the only account activity on an old server is moving clients off from it for upgrades to sdx/vps/dedicated or any cancellation.

And I just verified that our last couple of new servers have over 70% disk space free and they will not be getting any new accounts.

**Gwaihir** · 01-08-2007, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by masood

And I just verified that our last couple of new servers have over 70% disk space free and they will not be getting any new accounts.

That doesn't really mean much to us, as we don't know anything about what machines had, how fast accounts normally grow, how many move off over time for other reasons, or what upgrade options these machines still have.

Account moves can have hiccups

Thanks for being fair and honest about that, but with all due respect, you're not yet addressing the IMHO very rightfull concerns voiced. Orion, which I'm on, had a disk full problem too recently and I must say I felt a good bit worried when reporting it. Fortunately there was space to be found or made yet on that machine.

You're overselling the disk space. Of course you are. But apparently you misguessed the amount of space still needed here and there. O well, **** happens. But please admit that this is your risk and your problem and will be dealt with accordingly when it pops up.

That does not include stuff like:

Originally Posted by nrabinowitz

the only solution TS provided was to move my account to another server. They did, and despite their promise of a "smooth transition," immediately several things broke,

Forcing someone to move isn't providing a fair solution to begin with. Luring him into agreeing with promises one can't hope to live up to is, well, <insert random bad word>.

Originally Posted by masood

The best approach is to keep a list of custom settings handy that you have applied to your account.

Sorry, but that is mainly your responsibility in such a case. Most such things, like multi-hosting, should be easy to spot in the ticket history, as well as by a quick look around in the account. So in all fairness I believe JagPC should consider itself already informed and an experienced account-mover should be able to spot > 95% of these hickups that seem to occur so easily.

It does mean solutions like:
- Improving the movement process itself. Several suggestions on service JagPC could fairly easily provide to smoothen this have been pointed out. Acknowledge that these things take some time and special skill; don't let just any tech do this hoping for the best and aiming to quickly get to his next ticket. If a tech or two were to specialize in doing these moves and devote proper time to learning these tricks as well as to the moves themselves, I'm confident a lot of hickups could be prevented.
- Find some customers willing to move by giving them something in return for their trouble. Some simple benefit given might already go a long way as an incentive to volunteer for a move. Think stuff like a month or two free hosting (offered to clients with fairly easy-to-move accounts), +20% free disk space for live (offered to clients that are cramped), or first three months semi-dedicated for the price of Longhorn (offered to clients that seem about to burst out of normal shared soon anyway).
- Upgrade hardware if possible. Add disks, add memory, replace CPUs; a number of things can be done to get a "full" machine (disk or load) back to health. Even complete machines should be replaceable with very little downtime if you're committed to it. (Roughly: install new machine from backups, run some ever smaller low-priority rsyncs till both are fully synced, switch machine.)

Sure, these solutions cost money, in support hours, sub-optimal use of hardware, and discounts given, but isn't that only fair? You save substantial money by overselling, you loose some of that again when you have in retrospect oversold too much here and there.

**Connie** · 01-09-2007, 01:54 PM

I just lost a long post in regard to this issue. This board is screwy right now.

In summary of what I just posted, this "Move" policy sucks. It appears that is a quick an easy fix for support, rather than actually addressing the issues.

**Spathiphyllum** · 01-09-2007, 02:28 PM

I would agree with the concerns already posted regarding the "promptly move" policy. Gwaihir presents some good points. Having recently opted to move (during an extended period of server "interruptions") only to move back to the same server within days because the initital move was unacceptable, I appreciate nrabinowitz's concern though for different reasons. Either way, the solution to move an account as an early option in the troubleshooting/issue resolution policy is a poor one for those who have been established on a particular server for an extended period of time. The moves shift too much responsibility upon the client because transitions require extensive after-move corrections (configurations, modules, DNS, SPF, etc.) for the already frustrated customer.

I don't know what the best answer is because it depends on the scenario, but trivial suggestion of an account move is a bad policy. It should be a last resort consideration after other options have been exhausted. Yes, that requires patience from the client, but an honest explanation of the pros and cons of a move as opposed to asking for more time to resolve an issue is essential. I think most clients would appreciate a list of options rather than just "we can move your account to another server if you want". That's expedient, but not necessarily helpful.

**the_ancient** · 01-09-2007, 05:04 PM

Masood, I am going to have to agree, and I swear if I contact support and the only "solution" they giv me is to move servers, I will be looking for a new host

Let me say this ONCE and FOR ALL

MOVING SERVERS IS NOT A SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM, IT IS A BAND_AID AND NOTHING MORE

I was born and night, but not last night.

This is one reason I HATE cpanel, it allows you admins to willy nilly move accounts, but at the same time, it does not do so in a manner that eliminates problems with such a move, so me as the web site owner gets to deal with all the crap your support staff has created for me.

Move from one box to another is not a "minor" process, and the fact the the todays JPC support staff considers it as minor has me GREATLY concerned.

I love JPC as a company, but things like this really really make me mad.

**Connie** · 01-09-2007, 06:04 PM

Spath I addressed a lot of what you said in my original post. When I hit the Reply button I was taken back to a log in screen. Logged in again and reposted. Hit the reply button and got the log in screen again.

After the second failed attempt to post I got frustrated. The third attempt to post was accepted, and was only an abbreviation of what I originally wanted to say.

Bottom line is that A forced server move SUCKS IMHO.

**Spathiphyllum** · 01-09-2007, 10:24 PM

Connie,

I figured as much. You and I are pretty much a tag-team on this point since we've been on the same server and have shared the occasional pain. I know we both like this place, but this particular issue is a little fly in the ointment.

About losing the post, I always copy long posts to clipboard before submitting any form for just the reason you mentioned. Never trust that form data will survive a POST on bulletin boards.

**JPC-Masood** · 01-09-2007, 11:14 PM

When support says move is the only choice, then it means there is no hardware available to add disk space to the server. That is the last resort AND that the server will be phased out. All of you who were asked to move due to disk space, your old servers are marked to be phased out.

**the_ancient** · 01-10-2007, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by masood

When support says move is the only choice, then it means there is no hardware available to add disk space to the server. That is the last resort AND that the server will be phased out. All of you who were asked to move due to disk space, your old servers are marked to be phased out.

Well I for one will be the Last one to move from my Server then, and it will be completely against my will. The Server I am on is Rock Solid and I don't want to move to a Unknown possibly unstable box....

**Connie** · 01-10-2007, 04:26 PM

The server Spath and I are referring to is titanium.

Masood

You did tell me that the server was being phased out in two months. That was in the midst of support telling me they were not going to fix my problems, to everything is fine. You do not need to move.

Your response that the server was being phased out was the 1st of December. It's almost a month and a half later. Don't you think I should receive some kind of notification in regard to a pending move?

Why are servers being phased out? Is it an income tax thing, or the manufacture no longer makes replacement parts?

When this issue comes up why do you get so many different responses from support?

Why is it that when Greg gets personally involved in a ticket that all problems disappear?

Spath

Your probably right in regard to coping a post.