Strange behaviour

[Lolailo]

I'm having trouble with a website. Instead of the regular homepage some people (with different Internet companies) are getting a message about apache being installed on the server. Some are telling me they've been having this problem since over a month ago.

Support says it is DNS problems and it will correct itself soon by itself but that doesn't make sens to me. That Apache message must be coming from jaguarpc right? So then that would mean DNS is working. When DNS doesn't resolve you just get a page not found error. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Any ideas are welcome.

[jabbaonthedais]

Well if the DNS is still propagating, some will not be directed to your public_html folder, but to Apache's default folder. Propagation, from my understanding of it, is the time it takes for all the local DNS's to update the path it needs to send someone to your files. Thats why if move to another ip, some traffic will still pull the old ip. I haven't heard of it taking longer than 10 days though. Did you make any server moves or anything recently?

[wuurp]

If the apache message is from a jaguarpc server, I would say yes the DNS is working, and it's getting to the right spot. If so, sounds more like the virtual hosting isn't configured right. Are there different urls for the same site? Does http://www.domain.com and http://domain.com get to the same place?

[jason]

Without knowing the site's address I can't do any checking, but there are several things that could be happening here. Usually things like this happen when you've recently moved the site and deleted the site on the old server before the DNS has fully propagated. Individual ISPs and businesses cache DNS records (usually not for more than a day or two, usually less) to save time on repeated lookups to the same sites, so until everyone's DNS servers have dumped the stale cache, some people might get sent to the old server. This is the most common reason for this kind of behavior.

First, check at your domain registrar (or with a whois service) to make sure that only JaguarPC's DNS servers are listed. Thee's a small chance that there could be an outdated entry that is sending some hits to a older server with stale data. Generally you'd want ns.jaguarpc.net and ns2.jaguarpc.net unless you have a reseller, VPS, or dedicated plan. There are some other valid server names left over from companies that JPC bought out--such as Aletia and DEHE--that still work but unless you came from one of those companies you aren't likely to be using one of them. You should also try running a DNS report to see if there are any configuration problems. The most common one is DNSReports, but they seem to have changed and made it harder to get a free report, so try DNSColos instead.

There is also a very small chance that JPC's DNS record has two or more A records for your site, pointing at different IPs. For example, if you recently switched from a shared IP address to a dedicated one, or if you recently moved to a differnt server in the JPC network there is a chance that they updated the DNS wrong causing some hits to be sent to the old IP which is no longer configured to know about your site. To check this, open a command window on your computer and type "nslookup yoursite.com" and see what comes up. You should see only one address, toward the end of the output (usually under some text like "non-authoritative response" (for comparison purposes, do the same thing for google.com). Then check www.yourdomain.com to make sure it returns the same, single IP address.

When your users report an error, ask them what variant of the domain name they are using (www or now-www) and ask them to do the nslookup I just described and report the IP address they see. Also ask ifthe "Apache Page" you describe has an server name listed anywhere, as it often will and this can help you figure out where the user landed.

I'm too tired to think of other things to do right now, but these should be a good start. Let us know the results or about anything you find that you don't understand.

--Jason

[Lolailo]

Thanks everybody for your help. I really appreciate it.

jabbaonthedais
There have been no dns or server changes before the problems started. Now I just changed the DNS servers from NS.JAGUARPC.NET to NS.NOCDIRECT.COM because support suggested it might help.

wuurp
There is just one domain for this site so I guess that's not the problem.

Jason
I'm not sure if it goes against forum rules to post urls. I hope not. Here is the site I'm having problems with www.saloupark.com

The DNS report sites you suggest are not working so I couldn't check that.

I tried the dnslookup from the command window and I get a single address 69.73.181.156 But here comes the interesting part. When I try visit that address from my browser I get the infamous apache page.

So I think I found the problem but I don't know what it means or how to fix it. Any ideas? Or should I just tell support and it will be easy for them to fix now?

[Frank Broughton]

Both http://www.saloupark.com and http://saloupark.com go to
the correct page from here in Western NY State USA.

Both resolve properly to you newer DNS at domaintools.com and also with centralops.net

You will get that apache page from the IP 69.73.181.156 because that is the main IP of the server. Your server is using virtual hosting and your site does not have a dedicated IP address.

I have seen in the past where it takes longer for domain.com (no www) to propagate than www.domain.com (with www).

All seems well now though.

Here is a link to Apache's documentation on virtual hosting if you are interested in reading up on it: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/

[Connie]

I'm getting to your site just fine. In regard to the IP address you may need to add ~username at the end before it will resolve to your site. So it would be 69.73.181.156~usename. I'm guessing that you have a shared IP. If you have a dedicated IP then you would not need to add the username.

[Lolailo]

I really appreciate everyones input but I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do now.

Do I need to get a dedicated server with a dedicated IP? Actually I don't even know what that means. Do I need to change hosting company? I thought I just needed to point my domain to my hosting companys DNS servers and put my HTML files in the home directory for everybody to be able to see my sites. At least that is how it has been working for the last few years. What has changed now?

Somebody please help.

[Frank Broughton]

You should have to do nothing. Everything looks setup right. Are you still getting complaints?

[jason]

Nothing has changed. That is (in a nutshell, anyway) how it works, how it has pretty much always worked, and how it will continue to work for at least the near future and probably longer...

Internet 101:

Every computer connected to the Internet has at least one IP address. Think of this like the computer's phone number. In order for another computer to "talk" to your server in needs to "dial" that IP address. Since human don't handle numbers well, though, a system was put in place that maps easier to remember names (domain names) to those IP addresses. This is where the DNS servers come in to play: through a series of lookups, your computer is able to match saloupark.com to its IP address (69.73.181.156) so that it can make the request to your server.

Now, just like you phone numbers can be shared by multiple people, so can IP addresses. In the case of web hosting, the web browser sends a "host" header with your request that essentially says "can I speak with saloupark.com, please." That causes the server to look in the saloupark.com home directory to find the page that's being requested. If you request the IP address then the server won't know you specifically want saloupark.com and it will just show you the default page.

If you were to call my cell phone you would get me right away because I am the only person who ever answers my cell phone. Even if you didn't know my name to ask for me personally, you'd already be speaking to me. If you have a dedicated IP address the situation is similar--the server will assume that the request is for your site, even if no host header is sent.

There are a number of reasons to get a dedicated IP address, but most sites don't need them. In your case, it might fix your issues, but getting one would really just be putting a Band-Aid over the underlying issue. Now that you've changed your DNS servers, see if the problems go away. If not then we can brainstorm some more.

As for posting links, there's nothing wrong with doing that here, as long as the links are related to the discussion and not posted only only for the purpose of advertising. Of course, if you are ever unsure about posting a link puplically, you can always send it is a private message to the people helping you as well.

And, for the record, both versions of your site work fine from middle-western New York, about an hour and a half from Frank, as well.

--Jason

[Frank Broughton]

Jason,
Are you a teacher for a living? Your posts are always most excellent!

[jason]

No, but I do instructional development for higher ed. Many people have told me I should teach, though.

[Frank Broughton]

You create college curriculum? Computer related I take it.

[jason]

I don't generally create the curriculum itself, but I work with instructional designers to create instructional materials for a variety of subjects--some computer related, though I also do a lot in the liberal arts and humanities. I'm responsible for the technical aspects of such projects whether it be delivered over the web or on CD or DVD. I also do a lot of training to help faculty learn to use technology more effectively. I sometimes work within a framework, such as a learning management system, sometimes build entire apps from scratch.

Specifically, I work for a college that caters to deaf and hard-of-hearing students. Our students are very visual learners, so we do a lot of things with video and animation, which can't be delivered through traditional means.

--Jason

[Lolailo]

Jason thanks for the detailed explanation. It is more or less how I thought it worked but it was great to see it so well explained.

Unfortunately the problem with the website persists. It works fine for me but I just spoke to my client an he says he is still getting the same apache screen.