Huge uploads via www - does size matter?

[uprightdog]

I have a potential client who requires his website to be able to accommodate a small number of registered users uploading, via a web interface (not FTP), files that could be as large as 300 meg.

Would my VPS account be able to handle this, and if so, would there be any repercussions? If VPS couldn't handle this - what alternative accounts (if any) could?

Thanks in advance.

[Gwaihir]

The problem with this is not with your VPS, but with doing this over HTTP. Your VPS will handle it as good as can be. However, HTTP wasn't made for this sort of thing. The main problem: it doesn't handle interruptions very well. So if something goes awry, the upload needs to be redone from the start.

For downloading there are many "download managers" on the market to help out with this. I'm not sure if these are client-side only, or need something special server side too. If they are single-sided, and you want to "download" from client to server, perhaps something similar can be done on the server side to make uploads go more fluent?

That's a VERY long shot though.. I don't think there's much that can be done without installing something on the client's pc. And when you do that, can't you just give him an FTP program instead?

[Vin DSL]

Would my VPS account be able to handle this, and if so, would there be any repercussions?

Yes, you can do this -- but the repercussions will most likely be corrupt files!

There is NO error correction with HTTP transfers. Ever pull up a web page and see errors on it, such as a pic didn't load, malformed headers and tables, text scrolling off the page instead of wrapping, et cetera? Then, you do a 'refresh' and everything is fine...?

That's the problem with HTTP! The chance of sending files that big via HTTP with NO errors is pretty slim. You'll probably end up sending them over n' over to get it right...

Put another way... HTTP file transfer sucks! Use FTP!

H(yper) T(EXT) T(ransfer) P(rotocol) -- Designed to send webpages and webpage components to browsers via the Internet! No error detection or correction -- either direction!

F(ILE) T(ransfer) P(rotocol) -- For transferring files between computers via LAN, WAN, Intranet, Internet, et cetera -- you name it! Fully automatic error detection and correction -- both directions!

[uprightdog]

Okay, I get the picture - the current plan isn't viable.

Anyone any experience of, or opinions on, this software?
http://upload.thinfile.com/

[Vin DSL]

Okay, I get the picture - the current plan isn't viable.

Anyone any experience of, or opinions on, this software?
http://upload.thinfile.com/

Never heard of that one, specifically, but it looks like an excellent solution!

Heh! Maybe I'll turn it into a PHP-Nuke module...

With that software, HTTP and FTP transfers are both available. That way, if your client is too lazy or stupid to use FTP -- and they have problems -- it's on THEM, not YOU! You know?

[jason]

Think File looks like it could be a viable solution. I haven't seen it before, but I've used a similar system from SoftArtisans that works with ActiveX on Windows servers and it works very well. The specific application that I worked on was a photo gallery type script, where users could drag in a folder full of images and upload them all at once. I'm glad to see someone has replicated that functionality in a cross-platform solution.

It may just be my computer, but the demo on their site runs extremely slow.

--Jason

[tank]

there's a small amount of "misinformation" floating around this post you can upload via http as much data as you want (as long as you are aware of the pitsfalls listed above). A VPS allows you to change your php.ini settings and allow large file uploads. This is something you can not do via the shared plan. And you can also write php scripts to use FTP protocol to upload the files (much like the program you linked to).

So to answer the question.. VPS will allow you to modify any server settings that you can't normally modify to allow these large file uploads. The scripting part of it really has nothing to do wit the server.

[Gwaihir]

Sorry, but the only misinformation I see is what you just added. All posts above already agree that in principle you can upload as much data as you want. That you would be unable to do this in the shared environment is not true. Both the max-size and max-execution-time settings needed for that can be overridden from outside the php.ini.

I do agree that when you start looking beyond pure HTTP, you shouldn't discount FTP too fast. There's reasonable integration between the two on browser side (Internet Explorer has a built in FTP client for example). So chances are good that with a well written webinterface you can get your users to upload by FTP fluently. I.e. without any hassle and with the non-tech savvy probably never even realising it.

Edit: Google gave me this: http://www.zend.com/codex.php?id=527&single=1 (Consider it a proof of concept. I haven't tested it nor thoroughly reviewed it.)

[jason]

And you can also write php scripts to use FTP protocol to upload the files (much like the program you linked to).

Not quite...it is true that PHP has a set of FTP functions, but they cannot interface with the browser. Remember: PHP is a server side technology. The PHP FTP functions allow you to write scripts that connect to FTP servers to upload or download files from a remote server to your server, but they cannot get files from your local machine (unless you are running your own FTP server on that machine and you instruct PHP to access it.

To actually get the files to the server you'd still need to use HTTP uploads or a third party solution.

--Jason

[jason]

Edit: Google gave me this: http://www.zend.com/codex.php?id=527&single=1 (Consider it a proof of concept. I haven't tested it nor thoroughly reviewed it.)

That script is simply a web interface to an FTP server. It takes a file uploaded by HTTP and uploads that to an FTP server. In order for this to be effective you'd need to have a reliable HTTP upload initially, so it really doesn't do anything for the given situation.

--Jason

[Ron]

IE does have a built in FTP client... Just thought I'd toss that in for no apparent reason.

[Gwaihir]

To actually get the files to the server you'd still need to use HTTP uploads or a third party solution.

Pity. You sure there's no built in trick (probably browser specific) that can get your webbrowser to upload a file by FTP? Seems to be so little point in having that built in FTP in MSIE if you can't even tell it to do that..

That script is simply a web interface to an FTP server. It takes a file uploaded by HTTP and uploads that to an FTP server. In order for this to be effective you'd need to have a reliable HTTP upload initially, so it really doesn't do anything for the given situation.

Ok; I guess I should have actually read it rather than skimmed it for the word "FTP". Hmm.. bah.. it is indeed just a way to allow people to use FTP through an HTTP "proxy". Uploading twice! Awfully redundant for an upload script.

Weird.. hard to believe browsers still have no good built in way to deal with so common a task. So Jason, you're saying IE can have you download by FTP, but not upload (at least not without going through the motions of "real" FTP use first)?

[jason]

So Jason, you're saying IE can have you download by FTP, but not upload (at least not without going through the motions of "real" FTP use first)?

Correct...although there is an FTP client in IE, there is no way that I know of to do an FTP upload from a web page. That would be useful, though.

--Jason

[Vin DSL]

Correct...although there is an FTP client in IE, there is no way that I know of to do an FTP upload from a web page. That would be useful, though...

This is a rather confusing declaration...

If you log into a FTP server, using Internet Explorer, via a FTP session, you WILL be uploading/downloading files using FTP - period.

However, I think you're saying you cannot do this via a conventional HTTP interface. In that case, you are correct!

In other words, in order to upload files using the FTP client built into IE, you need to log into a FTP server, using a username and password, even if it's an anonymous login (if the FTP server allows anonymous logins). Otherwise, you cannot upload files via FTP using IE.

If that's what you're saying, I agree...

[Ron]

Lordy, if you give'm the link to the location you want it uploaded, with the ftp:// protocol prefix and the embedded username/password, it doesn't get much easier than that